I say good riddance to classes.

Although it would be nice to be able to reset your perks. If it makes sense that you can learn perks by looking at the stars, it makes just as much sense that you can reset them the same way. Especially since your character gains levels so quickly in the early game, before you've really decided how you want to play at the higher levels. My 2nd character got to around level 15 before I started spending perks, and I still ended up going a completely different direction after I spent them =P

The very first RPG computer games that I ever played was Fallout, Duke Nukem and Wolfenstein back in 1997: And, I have been playing ever since. Looking back, the improvements in mechanics made since then are outstanding. Some things are missing for sure. It's kind of like driving my first car which was a 1958 Oldsmobile 88, to an Oldsmobile of today. That Olds engine, I could take it apart and put it together without a fuss. It takes a computerize automotive mechanic to do it today. Kind of like comparing apples to oranges, don't you think?!?

Wait duke nukem and Wolf 3d are RPG's?

If the solution is to just use my imagination then I'll just skip on the game and be content with what I can cook up in my head. This "solution" completely misses the point of playing cRPG's.

Very few of the perks are even unique. Most are just number, or damage modifiers.

Actually, being stat heavy generally an RPG makes.

You can take Mario; give the player the ability to customize his size and color scheme, dump him into a gigantic world that has a lot of history, but if all you are doing is still pressing in a direction on the directional pad, pressing A to jump, holding B to run, and all the other simplistic Mario gameplay features, it's still not an RPG.

Mario has a few RPG spin-offs... and they are all stat heavy.

Keeping track of stats is a core of what an RPG is.

Take PuzzleQuest as another example.

You took the simplistic game of Bejeweled and what was combined with it? A stat system for characters, spells, items, etc.

And now it's a Puzzle Game with RPG elements.

Actually I think the latter two were 1st person shooters, now that I think about. Today, however, I am more inclined to play RPGs rather than single shooters. I am also not an online multiplayer as I think it is pointless to chase after a flag from one map to another. Multiplayer is all about kill points and other stats. Sort of mindless killing, I don't know?!?

I don't miss classes in the slightest.

Being stat heavy is an aspect that a lot (but not all) RPGs share, but being state heavy doesn't make a game an RPG.

Take grand strategy games. Europa Universalis 3 is a good example. Lots of stats...in fact most of the game is spent reading and manipulating various stats. It's nothing even close to an RPG though.

With stats, you don't necessarily have an RPG, but without stats you simply don't have an RPG. Like I said earlier: A car without a motor isn't a car, but a boat without a motor is a sail boat.

Not true! A boat without a motor could be a row-boat, raft, or doohicky instead.

While that may be true, please name me one RPG that does not have a fair amount of weight, or the entire core of the gameplay, based around stats and leveling said stats.

Which is my point. The Sail/Row/Doohickey representing the 'game that has stats but is not an RPG'. Saying: "A car without a motor isn't a car, but a boat without a motor is a Sail, Row, Dingy, I'm Blowing in the opposite [censored] direction, Pushed by dolphin companions boat", turns my self styled "Yogism" into a bloated Corpus.

But show us an RPG that does not have stats.

Another one of my points.

Skills used to matter, especially in Morrowind.
In Skyrim skill values are merely placeholders for perks.

We should go back to %chance for x to happen.
Ever since actions automaticly succeeded (Oblivion);
TES has drifted farther from RPG to action game.

Attributes are necessary for good RPGs; TES never quite got them right.
Attributes and skills should not be capped at 100.

The FATE-system, only one of the best of rpg-systems ever...

If there are any variables, then its a stat. There are no cRPGs without stats.

Those are stats.


Stats, get them while they're hot!

Yep, stats don't have to be numbers, any variable. Technically and semantically all games have stats, even pong. But a better description may be character focused, over player skill focused. And representations, lots and lots of representation.

True, semantically, literally, and technically, all games are based on stats because, well... you can't really build a game mechanic without using variables to control it.

However, this FATE system (I Googled it and looked over it for a total of five minutes), is still a stat system.

You have to dump "points" into a particular thing you want to be to get better at it.

Without stats Id argue that its not even a game, just playing pretend, in regards to RPGAME. That's why I don't believe non statistical Larping is an RPG of any kind (then again I don't know much about Larping, do they even have stats?). Your role playing, but its not technically a game.

No, having no stats is quite impossible... and nearly, if not completely, impossible to balance.

People doing those message board or chat room RPs without using stats or dice, it's incredibly easy to cheat in... especially since the game is supposed to be based completely on "logic," but players can be vague enough that any amount of action or counter-action can be possible.

Amber, Diceless Roleplay

Yes, it has a small amount of stats, but they're not remotely the "core of the gameplay".

Play-by-post is RP and that's generally stats-less.

As for RPGAMEs, Final Fantasy VII and IX don't focus on stats Although stats are present in both, you cannot effect them. You level up and the characters gain stats completely independent of your whims. Similarly, Final Fantasy XIII has a cap and a string-like upgrade system for characters, so you have no influnence there either.