I'm not avoiding it but I try not to sneak all the time when I'm in a dungeon. It is overpowered when you combine it with archery, but I'm at 97 and I'm not guaranteed to stay undetected if I'm moving up behind someone. I think the trick is to not take any perks, particularly the five Stealth perks. I put two in that, and also Muffled Movements and I regret it.

It certainly raises too quickly though. I'm on level 35 I think, and it's already 97, way higher than any of my other skills. One of the problems is it goes up while you're just standing still. In Oblivion you actually had to be moving, but now you just crouch in a corner and if there's a creature in the vacinity your skill is constantly going up. It should be much harder to raise it given how potentially powerful it is.

It got to the point where I could use glass daggers to 2-shot kill an elder dragon on expert or master (can't remember), I decided to not sneak for a bit

Sneaking, blacksmithing, enchanting, alchemy, illusion, conjuration, blocking, archery, restoration. Jeez can I use any skills? Because to be honest they're ALL broken as [censored].

None of those are broken. They just don't play the way you want them to.

If you can't realize that and adjust your thinking of how to level, your play style is broken.

It works fine for millions of players. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't make it broken.

Sneak is not much more OP than a weapon with paralyze + soul bind.

yep, almost all these can be leveled to a point where the game becomes much easier at a faster rate if you max em and pick the best perks.

as well, if you strictly roleplay (which usually means fewer used skills) then you can't help but become god as the max levels and perks are unavoidable.

many of the systems are so broken that people are absolutely correct when they say that this game puts you in the direction of creating an all-purpose do-everything character just to keep the game more balanced.

glad to see you've still got the same "argument" for your responses jpo. two thumbs up.

Speech is totally balanced

You just can't comprehend the idea of roleplaying, character development, and choices.

Too bad for you. Your missing out on a great gaming experience.

It depends, how and when you maxed the skills. I maxed Blacksmithign early on, allowing my level 12 to have Legendary Dragon Scale armor. However the NPC's he faced at that point where so over pwering even with that kind of armor, he had to sneak all the time just to survive.

Even at level 43 now sneak is still not maxed, but it allowed for the unblance of early smithing to be reblanced out nicely.

However if you think 100 sneakign is so over powering, then go around and start randomly picking pokets in broad daylight in a town square, you'll find out just how fast you get noticed then! Sneakign isn;t invisibility, if you do anything that makes someone take notice, even at high sneaking skills, they will likely notice you. The closer you are the more likely they are to notice.

Yes an archer that sneaks around seems powerfull in a dungeon. However try doing that in one of the main fort battles and you find it doesn't work so well.

i can only laugh at your lack of understanding between roleplaying and rpg's. but, at least, you're not the only one.

btw, since you've proven you don't actually read posts and get to understand the meaning of them, i DO roleplay this game called skyrim. very strictly, in fact, and, i like it a lot.

it's the rpg mechanics (and other issues, of course) that i and others have issues with and feel have been neglected, to say the least.

Sneak is what my character is based around.

Nightingale Armor (max tier)
Blade of Woe (BS to Legendary)
Frenzy in offhand perked to be most effective and silent

I thoroughly enjoy ghosting people. I never get sick of slicing throats. Although a little diversity would be nice, like running the blade through the back instead of slitting their throat. Some finishers for non humanoids would be nice too and for those sitting in chairs, using a forge, etc.

Broad daylight at 100 sneak. I can get closer than I would like without being seen by someone looking my way. Other than that, it's not bad at all. You actually have to use obstacles, 3rd person to look around them, and wait for the enemy to turn away. Using frenzy or a bow at a distance almost becomes a must when assaulting a fort with multiple enemies patrolling about. Although there are some issues here. The search time is far too short, and with quiet casting, the person hit is too busy being under the effect to realize that they've been hit, and everyone else should simply think that this person has gone psycho on them. The eye really shouldn't open at all. Pick a guy off with an arrow and have another see their buddy go down should mean that alarms go off (in a manner of speaking). They should all be finding cover and be on guard for quite some time.

At night at 100 sneak. I can get as close as I would expect. The world lighting at night is too light though and should be darker, visually (not to make sneaking easier). I am still easily spotted by enemies when they are facing me and I still have to use cover and/or wait for them to turn their back to me. Especially against the Foresworn. Sneaking at 100 at night on a clear night against Foresworn is how sneaking should be at night/inside against any humanoid.

Inside at 100 sneak. It's a joke. You can go right up to the front of people. Even the Foresworn, provided you are in a 'shadow' and not next to a light source.


And that is where the challenge needs to be for a sneak melee character. The approach. For a fighter, the challenge is the fight. For an assassin, it should be getting up to them without being seen. Both should be equal in challenge. If the fighter win's their challenge (the fight), the enemy dies. If the assassin wins their challenge (the approach unseen), the enemy dies. Thus an assassin should be able to one shot (assassinate) their target.

There is plenty in a stealth character's arsenal (throw voice, arrows at walls, and invisibility as some examples) that makes it possible to handle any enemy setup.

Sneaking, even at 100, should mean a whole bunch of waiting and watching. To see what the patrol paths are. To see what the timings are. To plan out the approach and to know what it is you have to do before you get there. The way it is now, just walk up and one shot, rinse, repeat, is the real problem.

Then there is ranged assassins. Taking out a guy with a bow should mean having to pick off the ones not in view of the others. Picking off one that is in view should mean that they sound the alarm and they should seek cover. They would then periodically poke their head out to try and find you, maybe reposition to a new covering spot to either get a better view or to simply try and get closer to you. They don't know where you are but they should have an idea of your general direction. Maybe not after just one shot but certainly after two. The challenge then becomes hitting a considerably smaller target (often just their head), hitting a quickly moving target (as they go from cover to cover) and/or forcing you to relocate and running the risk of being seen.

It's not the damage multipliers and the ability to one shot that makes stealth over powered. It's the fact that the sneak skill combined with how the AI is setup makes it too easy to sneak.

Sneak has a weird power progression. From levels 0-50 I can be spotted, but beyond that I become borderline undetectable. They need to change the pacing a bit.

Ummmm... okay, if you need that stuff.

Dice, a table, and a piece of paper used to work pretty good too.

And it's the same old "argument" over and over again because it's the same old whines over and over again.

This game and it's character progression, perks, and skills are not that hard to understand. Why people need a game to mechanic to create limits for them is apparently beyond my understanding.

word




double word

P.S. I'm of the mind that RP'ing in a TES game is the most enjoyable way to play (not like.. believing you're your character.. but having strict moral/progression guidelines for your character.. I just take that on myself.. I don't put the people whose job it is to design a game of the year in 3 years to do that..)

jpo-

thank you. now everyone can see that you really don't understand the differences between rpg's, roleplaying, action adventure, player-oriented and character-oriented.

you are absolutely correct: the progression, perks and skills are not at all hard to understand in skyrim.

you do understand that all games have, you know,these things called game mechanics that limit what you can do in the game. right?

Because creating limits for yourself to make things challenging is essentially a self handicap, that is ultimately false. You are compensating for ineptitude in design and mechanical balance, when the onus is upon those who designed the game in the first place.

Eventually, the challenge becomes too "artificial" at that point. If you cut enough out, you are left with half a game. Enchanting too powerful? Don't enchant? Smith? Backstab? Bows? Summons? Eventually you are running through the game naked and puching things to death.

Take a simplified anology. Say you are playing hide and seek with a friend. However, there is nothing to hide behind, or in. Just a plain open field. One could "pretend" to find the game difficult by pretending not to see the other person. I.E., artificial difficulty. You are pretending a limitation is there, but it doesn't exist. What is more fun, playing hide and seek in an open field, or in an area with actual places to hide?

When many enemies can destroy you with a few shots, no skill is overpowered. In Morrowind and Oblivion skills didnt seem overpowered, but i remember enemies not being as powerful as they are in Skyrim. Also, if youre concentrating on sneak for a good portion of the time then youre probably neglecting some other defensive skills which in turn may lead to a quick death if ambushed or surrounded

Yeh. Skyrim has those limits too.

It's just your choice on whether or not you choose to use them. And how to use them.

re123-

i'm sure their response would be that "you're not forced to play hide and seek."

honestly i would rather have an overpowered skill (sneak and archery) then s UP skill destruction and enchanting but the whole game balance is horrible there are horriblly UP skills (destruction) and op skills (sneak) with very little balanced skills (two handed) now I'm ok with smithing and enchanting because most people who complain about it power level ever try to level both legit? it takes forever!

now sneak I had an assasin that struggled with combat because I leveled my sneak pickpocket and lockpicking so I got owned in combat but getting progressively stronger and owning everything felt great till I realized I could kill anything with ease then the game became easy and I picked up dual wield and It was pretty difficult again I switched of from running sneak in high level areas and dual wield in low lvl areas and it was all good

I'll probably regret wading into this again, and it is off topic, but I'd suggest that the biggest 'poor choice' for many of the 'OP skills' players is the first one they made: Purchasing the game.

Beth made no mystery of the fact that this game was very open choice, which probably makes it a bad game for folk who need parameters and direction in their games (please don't think I'm bing insulting by saying this, it's simply a case of different strokes for different folks).

Well... real word anologies don't really work with games... and yours is way off.

It's more like me playing my young son in racquetball. Playing with all my strength and real life abilities that I've gained through years of playing... I kicked his butt.

So I gimped myself by playing left handed and down a point before we even started.

A self imposed artifical handicap.... and yet it made the game more fun for everyone.

Have you ever heard of handicaps in bowling, golf, etc. Artificial limits created to even the contest.

Simple stuff really.

I disagree.

It is essentiall asking the player to take charge of what is allowed when it's meant to be the game's job.

Players should always be trying their best to get through a game, using the best gear, best spells, best tactics etc. Inventing self handicaps for challenge is ridiculous, and basically lets developers continue to get away with making poorly balanced games.

A game developer should design content like they are playing chess against the players who utilize their content, and enjoy making players earn what they get.

And I disagree with you.
I never wear the best armor or use the most deadly weapons.

I wear what my character chooses to wear.

My main assassin wears Forsworn armor, carries a single non-enchanted orc dagger.

Isn't it awesome that this game doesn't force that upon us... it lets US choose.

How cool is that.