If you're avoiding it then why care?

Sneak has two things going for it. You don't ever have to even try it, and it works as intended.

No...because if you have all the perks, max skills, and the best gear...you should be much much better than everyone else in Skyrim at that skill.
That's how it works.

Geez....in Madden Football if I create a player with 100 in every skill I'm unbeatable. So guess what...instead of complaining that I'm unbeatable...I limit my skills. It makes a better game for me at least. And yet my son wants his namesake in the game to have 100 everything.

So should the game limit him? Or should he individual player learn how to create a character.

You either use it, or you don't.

I use it, but I'm not wasting perks in it, and I'm up intio 400+ hours on one character and haven't maxed it out yet. The only enchantment I use which is sneak related is muffle on both my and Lydia's boots, that's it.

My stealth guys at 93 (and muffled by DB armor), if I try coming at anything in an open daylight from any angle but directly behind, it spots me.
That and Forsworn, someone apparently gave them psychic powers.

I completed (I use the term loosely for TES games) a save in which I had full Sneak perks and enchants. I could remain unnoticed by anything and anyone in Heavy Armor, kill anything in a single, one-hand power attack and generally remain undetected when using a bow, even after the initial attack; not to mention you can substitute sprinting for rolling. My new save does not have Sneak.

If enemies actually looked for you rather than walking to you position, standing for a few seconds, and goes right back to where they came, then sneak might be balanced. But right now I can shoot an arrow, move back, and repeat. I find myself trying to find a challenge whenever I sneak places because if I don't there's just no fun in it.

Skyrim's sneaking is both easy and hard in all the wrong ways. Instead of making a perk that eliminates the challenge of traps make one that makes seeing them easier. Rather than making players practically invisible when they reach high levels give them access to more tools to take down enemies. Give the player more opportunities not the enemies' heads on a platter.

This.

I dont mind being "overpowered" in a single player game. If I ever felt that way, I can always change the difficulty or focus on other skills. This is so far from an issue to me. Should the AI be more intelligent for more of a challenge and realism? Sure, why not, what single player game cant be improved in that perspective.

No. People need to stop whining about stuff being overpowered. Thats why I cant make custom spells. Because of people like you.

Changing the difficulty may solve problems for magic and combat because the basic premise of those is to deal damage and switching skills should never be the answer. Simply altering the amount of damage that enemies deal and the amount you can take won't fix a thing about stealth. Stealth is all about moving and killing without being seen. To make that harder the amount of enemies must increase, their senses must be stronger, and their movements should be less obvious.

Saying "It's just a single player game" is not an argument at all. Yes, balance is much less important a single player game rather than a multi player one but if the game is unbalanced to the point where it just isn't fun, then there is a problem.

Tsk tsk.... it all boils down to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4

Even a stupid wolf if they see you for a brief instant wiht sneak at 100 won't let it go. They will come looking for you and you will have to kill them. Yet on other occasions you may be right out in the open and not be seen, at least according to that "eye" in the middle of your screen, but that doesn't mean you're not seen. It just means that there are no enemies or potential enemies that can see you at the moment.

But the thing is that this is a game. I mean really. There are dragons in it. There's magic. Undead. Werewolves. Normal laws of physics do not apply. If they did the world on which Tamriel exists would be torn apart from tidal forces alone from the moons.

No it does not need to be balanced like you claim. Skills shoulnt be nerfed because you have no self control. Beth gave us the chance to powerful if we want. You dont have to take advantage of that. But the rest of us should not suffer for your lack of self control. Like the people saying smithing is op when they use it to its full pontential. Its not op, its suppose to make you powerful. If you dont like it, dont use it.

I can't tell if you are serious or not.

Self-control? I shouldn't have to fix this game myself. If you want to be invisible while in broad daylight then you obviously don't like sneaking because at that point you're just moving around without a though. That is not sneaking.

And if you had read my previous comment, you would know that I don't want sneak to be nerfed but reworked. If high sneak rewarded players with more tools rather than defeating its purpose, making players think before they act, then it would be perfect.

Sadly, this forum has degenerated into those who do 'OP' things, and those who don't. It's the old issue of 'but it's in the game so they intended me to do it', rather than personal choice and understanding the consequences.

As I mentioned earlier, I have nearly 450 hours on one character, and my sneak skill is now pretty high, and I'm only using muffled boots for both myself and Lydia...I haven't put one training skill into Sneak, nor one perk...but it's improving because I'm using it, and those improvements are even coming from fireballing someone and not being detected aftewards...which fits in with the game's mechanics and skill improvement system - learning from experience, so to speak.

Sneak is one of the passive abilities, which just happen depending on how you play the game...a bit like the old acrobatic one in Oblivion. But at least with Sneak you don't have to bunny hop around the place to improve it.

That said though, if you do happen to sneak around places, then it will improve of it's own accord...but no one is forcing anyone to start sneaking up behind people and knifing them in the back, regardless of how successfull you may be at it. I know that I like to sneak into places and get as close as I can before I launch all out melee assaults, but that is in-character for my character...and I do prefer to sneak up on draugrs who are snoozing in their crypts and one-offing them if possible, because I prefer to kill one at a time rather than face 6 or 8 of them.

My experience - I wouldn't say it's overpowered, because I'm not abusing it...because to me this game isn't a competition.

It does have a down side though...I did unthinkingly sneak into the Blades sleeping quarters in the temple, and accidently was sneaking past one of them sleeping...next thing I know I was attacked by them for some reason. I'm guessing that it was because I was skulking around in sneak in the dark....either way it required a reload, lol.

If sneak is too powerful for you in combination with x, y, and z, then skip x, or skip y, or skip z. You can be sure that there are players who play without the full combination of x, y, and z, and sneak works just fine for them. If you lobotomize sneak for being overpowered in your specific character build, you stand a good chance of making sneak underpowered for others.

don't link me to that argument that people use because i'm not part of it. which means you don't actually read and think about what i'm saying.

almost everything you said has been said by others and you applied it to me.

so, yes, it's ridiculous.

Cheers! Here's to you good sir.

I wouldn't say it is overpowered, I get noticed frequently enough. Its not like you can just crouch right in front of someone's FoV and stab them in the gut. Its a long haul to level up sneak, it will add dozens of hours to your game if you sneak everywhere... but if you just crouch and walk into a wall before you leave Helgen... then... well that's your bad.

I think most people have gained a really good grasp on the mechanics of sneaking on the long trek to 100, and the skill is actually one of the better thought out and best functioning high end.

I really think they should scrap the extra damage for archery while sneaking, being able to shoot from a distance and hide so easily really makes playing an archer sneak a little too passive. Even from an objective standpoint, you really can't put any extra damage on shooting an arrow like you would be able to while stabbing someone in thier back.

I suppose the sneak bonus for archery is anolgous to a headshot or something, but in subsequent playthroughs for sneaky characters... I avoided the perk entirely.

most of you are saying tht you want it "fixed" it is not bug, it is not ruining the game, so stop saying that.

Not fun for you, BlahDog, not fun for YOU! There is no problem with stealth in my opinion. But I don't want to alter your opinion. However you feel is fine with me. But,striving to change the game to meet your expectations and desires, makes the game change for everyone else who does not share your opinion. And trust me, because I know from experience, the majority of people do not share your opinion, on any given subject. Not even the opinion that "life is better than death". Forcing change is forcing everyone else to be you.

Leave stealth alone. Don't make it so powerful that it isn't fun for your to play. You have an option. But if you forced Bethesda to change it, WE would no longer have an option to use it. Change yourself, not us. Or play something else.

It is. It's easy to say "just improve the AI" but really your dealing with latest in coding techniques and research. AI is not an easy thing. It takes a team of highly skilled programers months and months of coding to get right. The kind of small fixes proposed would address major concerns without needing to write new AI code. Which is why I'm sure a mod will be available along those lines.

What's great about a mod is that people who like the game as is can keep playing it and those who care to change it can. Everyone is happy.

Thanks all for your input on this issue. I didn't realize I hit a raw nerve in these forums on this subject but glad for all the input.
thanks
js

QFTW

I don't use sneak at all. First character was heavy on the sneak and archery, and eventually the game got way too easy, so I increased the difficulty, but that only made enemies tougher, not smarter, so it didn't really help. Kind of svcks you have to avoid a skill completely like that.

Sneaking doesn't mean invisible. It means unnoticed. People sneak around in broad daylight every single day. They're called the CIA, for instance. MI6 also. Anyone trained to not be noticed until it is too late falls under this category.