True, but the empire cant stop a bunch of lowly rebles, and the empire has much more equitment/troops(lore wise at least). If they cant do that, can they fight the thalmor either?

Not trying to be rude, but that logic is flawed, and can be used the other way around. I dont know what side to take, I supported the empire.The old one, the septem one. This "new" empire is weak beyond words. Honestly if I knew who ***SPOILER***

took medes place after his untimely demise

*UNSPOILER*
it would make things a lot eisier, as that plays a big part in the fate of the empire itself. As it is, I have trouble supporting a dying political machine led by an imposter, non dragonblooded leader. The fact that it supports a hostle country to have spys/agents through out its lands (a country that thrives on this sort of thing no less), and lets them pick up its citizens doesnt make it any better.

Bethesda did a nice job of making this grey.

okay. I've read this entire thread, so now I'm confused.
A few of you have mentioned that if Ulfric hadn't made a big deal about Talos worship being banned, none of this would have happened.

Are you all saying he is wrong for making a big deal? That he should have just gone quietly on and just worshiped in private? Or are you saying that he is just using that as an excuse for starting the civil war?

Because that bothers me that he should just stay quiet. Unless of course his ulterior motive was to start a war. I dunno. I get mixed up. So my next playthru will be on the Imperial side.

'Thesda did a nice job on something in Skyrim?

omg nuuuu weigh

Honestly though, they really did.

What really sold me on the Stormcloaks was the damned Altmer, I found so many corpses at the Talos Shrines littering the Skyrim landscape that I came to despise the damned cowardly empire.

Even with the White Gold Concordant, the Altmer still roam around murdering anyone they see fit.

Racist or Not, Ulfric Stormcloak isn't going to carry out a genocide of all the races he dislikes unlike the Thalmor and the shadow of an empire who would stand by and wouldn't be able to do anything. If you see him as racist does that make him the devil? Is the racism such a sensitive topic these days? Lot's of great, accomplished, people and leaders, have been racist, even a little. If Ulfric is, I see no difference that it makes. The Stormcloaks want to destory the Thalmor(who now controls the empire) and restore order to the lives of men on Tamriel.

And Ulfric was betrayed twice by the empire. Once when he returned from the Great-War to be welcome by a new elven policy, and the second when he was arrested by the Empire after helping them out. The Empire doesn't give a [censored] about any of the other provinces, they only care for themselves. Do you know why the Forsworn took over Markarth and held it for over two years? Because the Empire didn't give a damn.

I think so does the Empire. It's just they don't have the troops present to do it. In any case, the Stormcloaks have a just cause but so do the Empire.

In the end, I decided to go with a personal motivation.

My Dragonborn doesn't know whether Ulfric or the Empire would be better, he can't see the future, but he does know that he thinks Ulfric's murder of the high king was cowardly and he deserves the same "Thu'um then slash."

That's good point you have here. And why it should be so big topic about other races? They are not trying to conquer all of Tamriel like Imperials - They are fighting only for getting their own land back. Every race should have to have right to rule their own province independently.

Since evryone is saying "If stormcloaks win the empire/men/tamriel is doomed!" I would laugh if Bethesda made the stormcloaks win in war and then repel/defeat the Thalmor with aid of the dragonborn xD

It was "Thu'um then slash" but it wasn't murder. It was a defeat in a fair duel.

Stormcloaks can more rather beat Thalmor than the Empire who is on it's knees at the front of Thalmor. Anyway because both victories in civil war are possible I believe that in future it's written that the Skyrim's civil war ran Empire and all the men in such chaos that it made it possible for Thalmor to over run all of Tamriel.

Er, not a fair duel.

Your forgetting that Ulfric was to follow the way of the voice. He did not.

It's doesn't matter. Best warriors among the Nords may have learned power of Thu'um. Nowhere in ancient tradition is said that it's not fair to use Thu'um in a duel.

It's kind of poetic when my 50 level + guy can do the exact same thing to him. I wonder how the Stormcloaks will react when they hear I did it. It was a fair duel, after all.

Whether it was legal by ancient duels or not, Ulfric killed a guy who would have supported his cause and my Dragonborn will kill him for it. Just because he likes the guy from what he's heard and his widow seems nice.

Morality and the greater good of Skyrim doesn't enter into it.

It's kind of cool, I believe, to think like that.

But yes, really, I'm sure Skyrim with the Dragonborn could defend itself from the Thalmor. Ditto, I'm sure the Dragonborn could help keep the Empire together. It's sort of his destiny to fix [censored].

Saying it wasnt fair that Ulfric used the Thu'um is like saying it wouldn't be fair if a mage dueled a warrior or if someone had better armor than the other... having an advantage that makes you stronger doesn't make it unfair. Nowhere does it say you can't use the Thu'um in duels.

...That's 'cause he was too busy running away! _(J/K!)


Having said that I did chose to follow the Storm Cloak as he willing to help me escape, and because the Nords have shown me nothing but respect and fairness, it's the least I could do to pay them back for their hospitality as a visitor in their land....Whereas the Imperials hospitality was to have me executed without even being on their list of criminals, yet after I learned what a tool "Ulfie the Storm Drain" turned out to be, AFTER having joined his biker-gang of an army, I'll definitely have to test out his own mettle as a person of true strength, being fit to rule...Seeing how I just PWNed the world-eater without the help of Dullfric or the pompous bigoted general,(The contempt shown for Nordic customs is inexcusable for one trying to liberate their nation from the Ulfric threat) they can both st*u and serve me, as their rightful high king/Emperor!...Hell, My grandfather was the Nerevarine, Archmaster of House Redoran, and saved the Nords in their time of need as well. My Father was instrumental in stopping the oblivion crisis and killed Manimacro in single combat earning the title of Arch-Mage, And Ulfie?..Yeah, a lowly foot-soldier and the grand slayer of a boy-king..Oh yeah, I'm also a Dunmer, believe it or not, though you don't hear me pissin' on about my lot like those miserable wretches at Windhelm...


As far as bringing in world-politics into this game, people are missing the point of fantasy-gaming!

I can't see Dragonborn fighting for the Empire. His destiny to fight for the Empire died somewhere between death of Martin Septim and Talos Worship outlawing.
It's good you have find a way to play in a way you like it. I'm also at the moment playing with Imperial character. It's also fun to play with a character who doesn't care about the politics or justice - he has sworn to serve the Emperor and he does it. It doesn't matter who has to die for it.

Well whatever, I'm not 100% pro Empire either, i think i prefer a neutral stance for most playthroughs. But Ulfric is a still an [censored].

Let's think about this. Is the Dragonborn's destiny not to save Skyrim from the Dragons and serve it? So wouldn't the Dragonborn be more inclined to help Skyrim become a stronger, independant nation?

One more thing. The word 'Racism' get's thrown around so much that people forget it's meaning. Racism: The belief that one race is superior or inferior to another. As far as I know, If you play as a Dunmer and enlist in the Stormcloak Army, Ulfric doesn't ask "So, why does a filthy gray-skin like you want to fight fo Skyrim?" Is Ulfric xenophobic? Maybe, but racist? Calling Ulfric racist is like calling the Forsworn racist.

'Ole Storm-Drain's not a racist, a two-faced cowardly pom-pom-girly man yes, but not a racist..

Oh look its this thread again, national pride isn't racism, and yes nations are formed, empires are bad, the multicultural card is amazingly [censored], you can have multicultural relations between different nations, you don't need to be a empire.

And yes if the nords aren't happy to be part of the empire they have all the right to form theire own nation and govern themselves has they want to for good or bad, it's like half the people in this forums never had history classes, pratically all countries that exist in the world, and yes very likely your country had to fight for it's right to be, and many times they were part of a empire or another country.

I won't deny that. Assuming what's behind the cut is something like "he's an ass." He is an ass- and not a very good jarl- but he's right about this war, as Ralof says. And he's a war leader. Much as I like Brunwulf Free-Winter, he's not the man I'd want leading a war against the Thalmor. "There is no glory in war, that's just something they tell soldiers..." You may be right about that, Bruni, but keep it down a little.

Barf.

The Empire was going to execute me for no apparent reason. Even when the one dude appeared sympathetic, he was just like "well, that's that, let's get to choppin'"

Screw them, I enjoyed every second of my over-levelled (unintentionally) romp through their strongholds, Daedric axes flying

I wonder what would be the reactions of the Imperial supporters if, no matter what choice you made in the Civil War, the Empire winded up dissolving anyway.

I have Had A revelation. Titus's Endgame
Do you guys think this could be possible?