Exactly.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?



Can you quote the part where Ulfric makes racist comments?

Also have you read a book called "http://www.imperial-library.info/content/dunmer-skyrim"?


It certainly does say something.

Fair enough. But why do you think Ulfric is a racist?

By the eight! What have you done?! Drag the war as long as we can benefits the Dominion more. Failing that, an Empire victory is a better outcome.

On their victory, the empire still has to maintain a sizable force in Skyrim to prevent another Ulfric from rising. This keeps the focus of both the Imperials and remnants of the rebellion in Skyrim.

Should the empire lose, it would have retreated all available personal and give up on Skyrim altogether. Then we would have to content with one more very aggressive rival nation that may begin to focus their energy on retaliation on the motherland.

You have betrayed us! Beware the night, for the Thalmor does not forgive nor forget.

Well the Empire doesnt really mass exterminate the Nords, nor do they even suppress the population. As I see it the good things that has come from the empire to Skyrim outweighs what bad has been made.(like really outweights)

That some of the Nords (Ulfric for ex) takes the chanse to betray the empire as soon as he has the chanse to help is really low. His honor has comleatly vanished from my viewpoint. I as a Nord would care for the Empire as the Empire has cared for Skyrim for so long. I am not only a fair-wheater friend, I am prepared to stand up for my friends no matter what situation they are in!

The empire has shown it can't win. And it is now weaker than ever. There is no feasible scenario in which it can rise again.

The Stormcloaks could present the Thalmor with a real challenge. Like The redguards did.

Quotes please? Preferably screenshots of the dialogue?

Because in Hammerfell they were fighting against the Thalmor, the enemy the storm cloaks should be fighting against but are not. The Empire was also too weak at the moment to really do anything else.

You mean when he agreed to help retake Markarth, then went to prison for succeeding in what he was asked to do? Yeah, that was really low of him. LOL

But thats the point of the rebellion, the empire has stopped caring about its provinces. They let Valenwood get conquered and never made 1 attempt to get the bosmer their native land back in over 140 years. Morrowind was attacked by black marsh and the empire didn't intervene. Orsinium was sacked by high rock and hammerfell and the empire's only action was to escort refugees to skyrim. It stood idly by while thalmor lies poisoned the opinions of the Khajiit of Elsweyr. The moment the IC came under threat it abandoned Hammerfell and all outlying provinces. The empire is the biggest fair-weather friend I've ever seen.

I have read it many times and because of your post I read it one more time. It still has nothing which blames Ulfric to have any kind of connection to Thalmor. Thalmor sees him as asset because he can cause the Empire's situation in Skyrim to be unstable. They want to make sure that he and his rebellion lives but they have nothing to do with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks. When Thalmor had their first war against the Empire they were able to capture Ulfric to be their prisoner. During the interrogation they recognized his value and they make it possible for Ulfric to escape (he didn't know that Thalmor allowed him to escape). Ulfric wasn't on a hunt. When the Imperials banned Talos Ulfric wanted to separate from Empire, but as a Jarl he is not the ruler of Skyrim who can make such a decision. So he challenged High King in a duel. It has been Nordic way through the centuries. After a fair battle Ulfric won and he should be crowned as High King. But this didn't fit in the Imperial politics and they refused the ways of the Nords and blamed Ulfric as murderer. This caused the civil war. Skyrim's rightfully High King is Ulfric Stormcloak by the Nordic traditions but the governor of Skyrim by the order of Emperor Titus Mede II is general Tullius. Which side you support in the civil war depends on which you believe is more legitimate: Imperial Law or Nordic Tradition.

It was hardly as simple as that. You will have to do better than that

Well why don't you go to Windhelm and see for yourself? Really...

I've been to windhelm. Many times.

He doesn't comment on any race besides hating the Thalmor. Provide proof.

Even weak, what prevented the Empire to turn on the Dominion when they were getting their butts kicked by the redguards in hammerfell? The nords and future stomcloaks would have joined in with enthusiasm.

The reguards won because the Empire had weakened Thalmor forces during the retaking of the Imperial City, the Thalmor also shifted most of their focus towards Cyrodil, they were fighting a battle on multiple fronts. How could the Stormcloaks on their own take on the Thalmor when Skyrim, Cyrodil, Highrock, and Hammerfall could not. It would be best for the Empire to unite and bide its time, wait for the Thalmor to show weakness and then hit them hard.

The Stormcloaks can hardly defeat the Empire, the Empire is fighting the Stormcloaks in their own land and yet the Stormcloaks still struggle to defeat them. How can they provide the Thalmor a "real challenge" if the can't even break away from the Empire. How can they win a war after just finishing one, without anytime to recover and gather resources. The Empire is protecting Skyrim.

You want proof? By all means, here you go:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ulfric_Stormcloak

From which i quote:

Many non-Nords and Nords alike, such as Brunwulf Free-Winter, consider him racist. In his city Windhelm, the Dunmer live in a part of the city called the Gray Quarter, the segregated slums of Windhelm. Likewise, Argonians have been banished to the outskirts of Windhelm. Brunwulf Free-Winter claims that Ulfric refuses to send aid to the Khajiit caravans and non-Nord towns that have been raided by bandits.

I have to agree.

Some people seem to forget that the only basis of this discussion is the moral or who SHOULD rule.
The thing is we don't know who has more soldiers or anything to determinate the military power.

And many people are very emotional in this discussion, which is kinda a good thing, isn't it?! It shows that Bethesda is a good story teller.

I must confess that I am not an expert on the lore, but I know most that surounds the games. (Not as much happening around the games) As I suspect the empire had no idea that the Thalmor turned the khajiit by clever lies, and even if they did know it would be super-hard to prevent.
As I underastand aswell the red mountain erupted before the argonian invastion. So what was left to save? (correct me on wheter the invation was before or after if i was not correct)

I think, what they have made mistakes has been made up for in good. All makes mistakes some make huge mistakes (like the empire) but at least they have done what they can.

Also read this:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulfric_Stormcloak

From which i quote:

During the Great War, Ulfric was captured as a prisoner of war and tortured by Elenwen for information by the Dominion. While still imprisoned, the Dominion falsely led him to believe that the information they extracted from him was used in the sack of the White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil. Ulfric was then allowed to escape the Dominion prison, and he returned to Skyrim.

So like i said at the beginning, by being allowed to escape, he was set loose.

Because then the Empire and Hammerfell would have to deal with the full force of the Dominion, the Redguards were only fighting whatever troops the Dominion decided to leave in an area they believe they already had control of. The Redguards didn't defeat the Dominion, they kicked out a small portion of it. In the "In my time of Need Quest" you learn that the fight against the Thalmor is still going on in some portions of Hammerfell. Hammerfell is still not totally free from the Thalmor. It took everything the Empire had to kick the Dominion out of the Imperial City, even with aid from Hammerfell the odds were still against them. Again the treaty is better then being rule by the Dominion.

Easy. Same way the Redguards did. Hammerfell said 'We've lost too much for all this to be for nothing." An attitude that Mede II should've adopted. The Empire renounced Hammerfell as a province, and Hammerfell alone, without the Empire's help, fought off the Aldmeri Dominion. Skyrim couldn't do the same? This proves that if anything the Empire is a hinderance to the other provinces.

I agree with you there. The Stormcloak/Empire political and military situation is very intriguing. It is by far the most discussed topic on all skyrim fora.

Though the Hamerfell had the armies to withstand the weakened Thalmor, Skyrim defenetly do not at the moment. Just a badass attitude with no muscle to back it up wont win the war.