Thank the 8 or 9? Talos: Divine or no?

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:39 am

Yeah, you do. And Skyrim allows for that.
yea for the player not for the NPC like that quest in markarth where we had to find evidence of Talos worship but that was Thalmor quest go figure.
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Kelsey Hall
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:41 pm

The Thalmor know Talos is a god. They just hate him. Banning his worship was done mainly for two reasons:

1) It drives a wedge into the Empire that weakens it from the inside.

2) Humans believe that after the beginning of creation, the gods brought about the existence of mortals from the earth bones. This makes them revere Lorkhan for starting creation. Elves believe that they descended from the first beings to form and existed as spirits prior to creation. They hate Lorkhan for starting creation and forcing their spirits into a cycle of life and death as mortals.

Talos, having taken Lorkhan's mantle in the Wheel of Convention, is thus to be hated in their eyes. The Thalmor's ultimate goal is to finish destroying or disabling the remaining towers that hold together the Wheel, thus ripping apart creation and returning the universe to how it was before Lorkhan's betrayal tricked the gods into creation.

Talos is Lorkhan. He may not be considered aedric because I don't think Lorkhan is considered aedric. The deity that tricked the gods into creation didn't technically participate in it.

This ^^ Very well explained and it makes a whole lot of sense. It is certainly the main reason that drives the Thalmor to outlaw the worship of Talos. The Thalmor hate the fact that they became "mortal" during the creation process. And they probably believe they can transcend if they try hard enough and undo what has been done so many centuries ago.

I also don't think real peace will ever be possible with the Thalmor, because they are so focused on their goal and nothing else matters.
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mike
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:13 pm

Yeah, it's a little difficult to make peace with people who think the right thing to do is to destroy the universe. That's the kind of ideology that simply doesn't play nice with others.
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Red Sauce
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:26 pm

Yeah, it's a little difficult to make peace with people who think the right thing to do is to destroy the universe. That's the kind of ideology that simply doesn't play nice with others.

Exactly. A lot of people compare the Thalmor to the Nazis and I do believe that is a fair assessment. Their ideology and their megalomania leaves no room for rational thoughts.
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naome duncan
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:11 pm

Nine divines. Nine divines.
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Sweets Sweets
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:34 pm

You know, one good thing about the Thalmor's goals is that ending the world would also end stupid discussions about divines.
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celebrity
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:40 am

My character is a monotheist

Hail Sithis!
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Skrapp Stephens
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:54 pm

Well then you might as well worship Alduin and his dragon priests.

Alduin is not a Deity. Dragon are by nature Immortal, and Alduin was the First Dragon created by Akatosh, but he never Ascended/Mantled Akatosh/achieved CHIM. The only reason Parthurnax couldn't defeat/stop Alduin is because of Alduins power, but Parthurnax reveres/worsips Akatosh, not Alduin. Alduin jealously guards the right to eat the Souls in Sovngarde because it is his right as First Created by Akatosh, and it is within his title as the World Eater, not because he is divine.

The Dragon Priests received power from the Dragons because the Dragons had such a mastery of Magic/Thu'um, not because they are Deific beings.
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luis dejesus
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:30 am

I don't know/not sure I care. I am against Thalmor forbidding people though.

At the same time, I understand why the Thalmor are angry about it. From what I can tell, not only was Talos a mortal, but he kinds of sounds like a piece of crap. Mind you, I think the same of my own character. That said, why am I not divine then? This is what goes through the average Thalmor's mind too, probably. "What makes this other piece of crap so special?"
The Thalmor are only mad because Elves used to be immortal, but became mortal when Mundus was created by Lorkhan. They think that Elves are the only beings worthy of immortality, not men, so Talos cannot be a divine in their eyes. This is basically what the Great War is all about. The Thalmor want to disable each of the towers that were created to link Nirn to the divines, destroying Nirn and sending them back to their "rightful" place of immortality.
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Jaylene Brower
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:31 pm

Alduin is not a Deity. Dragon are by nature Immortal, and Alduin was the First Dragon created by Akatosh, but he never Ascended/Mantled Akatosh/achieved CHIM. The only reason Parthurnax couldn't defeat/stop Alduin is because of Alduins power, but Parthurnax reveres/worsips Akatosh, not Alduin. Alduin jealously guards the right to eat the Souls in Sovngarde because it is his right as First Created by Akatosh, and it is within his title as the World Eater, not because he is divine.

The Dragon Priests received power from the Dragons because the Dragons had such a mastery of Magic/Thu'um, not because they are Deific beings.

What judges whether something is Divine? The Psijic Order dislikes the term; everyone is a god to them. A "God" is a very Mannish term, the elves call them "ancestors." Auriel is a better ancestor than them, but a "god" isn't a proper term.
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Sxc-Mary
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:12 pm

What judges whether something is Divine? The Psijic Order dislikes the term; everyone is a god to them. A "God" is a very Mannish term, the elves call them "ancestors." Auriel is a better ancestor than them, but a "god" isn't a proper term.
You said it right there. Men basically judge what is/isn't divine since they coined the term.
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Prisca Lacour
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:17 pm

My character is a monotheist

Hail Sithis!

Sithis is not a god. SIthis is Padomay and Padomay is a primal force
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Bethany Short
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:04 pm

I believe that the term "Divines" was coined by Alessia when she came to power. She basically took all of the major gods worshipped by the people in her new empire and called them the 8 Divines. Once Talos became a god he became the 9th divine according to the humans. It is an arbitrary designation, though, as there are MANY other gods in the ES lore, both good and bad. Those just happen to by the ones deemed most acceptable to worship by the majority of people. Talos being a divine or not isn't a huge deal because the distinction is mostly semantic. It's the outlawing of Talos worship that is the real problem.
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Tinkerbells
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:26 am

Oblivioin: Knights of the Nine I believe answers this, as Talos gives you a gift to defeat Umaril the Unfeathered.
Then there are the operational shrines and amulets.
If someone is not a god, you won't see any results from a shrine or a medal to them except placebo effects.

If I am a god, even in Palmyra, how do I heal gout? - Augustus Caesar
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Jonathan Windmon
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:31 am

The Psijic Order dislikes the term; everyone is a god to them.

Tell that to Sotha Sil.
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Wanda Maximoff
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:30 pm

Oblivioin: Knights of the Nine I believe answers this, as Talos gives you a gift to defeat Umaril the Unfeathered.
Then there are the operational shrines and amulets.
If someone is not a god, you won't see any results from a shrine or a medal to them except placebo effects.

Yes. Talos also makes an apperance in morrowind in disguise mind you, but if he can just appear like that im gonna say he's risen to be something more than man.
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Nancy RIP
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:55 pm

Eight. Long before the false god was forced onto Tamriel, there were the Eight. Now, with the fake teachings finally debunked... there are Eight again.
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Damien Mulvenna
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:40 pm

Eight. Long before the false god was forced onto Tamriel, there were the Eight. Now, with the fake teachings finally debunked... there are Eight again.

lol thats dumb,
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Oblivioin: Knights of the Nine I believe answers this, as Talos gives you a gift to defeat Umaril the Unfeathered.
Then there are the operational shrines and amulets.
If someone is not a god, you won't see any results from a shrine or a medal to them except placebo effects.
This is true and the outlawing of Talos worship is not right.
.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:18 pm

There's really no question that Talos is a divine. This is so utterly set in stone and verified by the lore and previous games that denying his status as a divine is as futile as denying gravity.


The Thalmor wouldn't be so hung up on having him banned from worship if he were merely a well respected human mistakenly worshipped by fools. They have a problem with him because he IS a divine and that throws a spanner in their master plan to unmake Nirn as Talos IS Lorkhan in a sense, in the same way the Champion of Cyrodiil IS Sheogorath
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luke trodden
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:37 pm

I say we compromise and go with, "Thank the 89" and include the daedric princes, arch mages, liches, and the top 10 most attractive people of Tamriel each year by forum poll.
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Facebook me
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:38 pm

I say we compromise and go with, "Thank the 89" and include the daedric princes, arch mages, liches, and the top 10 most attractive people of Tamriel each year by forum poll.

Or just Me.
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Emma Copeland
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:48 pm


The Thalmor wouldn't be so hung up on having him banned from worship if he were merely a well respected human mistakenly worshipped by fools. They have a problem with him because he IS a divine and that throws a spanner in their master plan to unmake Nirn as Talos IS Lorkhan in a sense, in the same way the Champion of Cyrodiil IS Sheogorath

Very well said.
In a sense, the Thalmor's own relentlessness when it comes to Talos gives them away, despite the spin they put on their actual goals and thoughts.
If he truly wasnt a Divine, they would be unlikely to bother to the extent that they do.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:36 pm

Well a daedra can give you their blessing. Doesn't mean their worth worshipping. Also mages have spells that effect others as well as having the ability to create enchanted objects. What makes you think Talos and infact all divine shrines are blessed and not merely enchanted objects of the mages?

Once you have decided that a proof is not sufficient because "that could just be magic" then how could anything be proof? Its a magic that is beyond anyone in the world. Its an enchantment that is not a clickie, and it doesnt get used up like charges or potions.
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Sxc-Mary
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:39 pm

Exactly. A lot of people compare the Thalmor to the Nazis and I do believe that is a fair assessment. Their ideology and their megalomania leaves no room for rational thoughts.

Ah.... no. The Nazis were not nihilists. The Thalmor are. [And it's certainly refreshing to be able to post that simple word on a forum without getting it edited/getting a suspension....]
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Kortniie Dumont
 
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