You mean Valenwood? The place that is constantly being purged by the Dominion? Valenwood isn't exactly bolstering with fit soldiers. And Elsweyr supports the Dominion, it hasn't fought for it yet. What did the Dominion's allies do for them in the Great War?

I think you meant the Thalmor, if you mean the Stormcloaks:

Not currently, but there is not a war between the two going on currently.

I will definitely be talking to her. I admit I have been resorting to reading the books in hopes of getting some sense of my personal standpoint on the war.
Does anybody know some good books to read regarding those events or the events leading up to it? I've read The Bear of Markarth, which nearly ruined my opinion of the Stormcloaks.

I'm sorry, but...how in hell is that different from fighting them as an empire? The provinces would still be working together as one unit, so why bother with a silly civil war that will have people killing their own brothers and thinning out the population of people who could potentially fight as soldiers against the Thalmor? That very notion is stupidity at its finest.

The Empire's crime is them being cowards for not fighting the Aldmari Dominion. Not a good enough reason for Ulfric to start a civil war. He should've used his Stormcloaks to attack the Thalmor, not the Empire. If he started a war with the Dominion the Empire probobly would've eventually backed him up. Instead he'd rather cooperate with the Thalmor's divide and conquer strategy. Why? Cause he only really cares about becoming high king.

The Bear of Markarth is a propaganda piece, and also a secondary source. It is all too shy to mention that the Imperials were the ones who offered Ulfric and his militia free Talos worship, they did not demand it. Both Ulfric and Jarl Igmund (primary sources) confirm this.

"Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up the names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates."

It doesn't say that Ulfric did this, and I don't think he would, given that his job was to retake the city, not interrigate, torture, etc. And there are still Nords and Natives around the city who experienced the Markarth Incident, so obviously they were not all put to the sword.

I would recommend reading 'The Great War.' If you read in between the lines, you'll realize that the Aldmeri Dominion is not as strong as they appear to be.

A few other good books are The Rising Threat and The Infernal City.

Just like the Empire backed Ulfric up during the events and aftermath of the Markarth Incident?

Haha. As I said, almost ruined my opinion. I'll hit the books right now. Thanks!

In my most humblest of opinions, whilst siding indefinitely with the Stormcloaks, a united Empire will be the only thing powerful enough to stand even the most smallest of chances against the Dominion.

I support Ulfric's claim to self-determination and religious freedom, and I will follow him to the death for it, but I know that Skyrim alone can't withstand the Dominion.

Igmund offered free worship ahead of time, not the Empire. Propaganda isn't the same thing as lies. You have a Lenin avatar, so you know that.

Ulfric controlled the troops that took the city, so he is culpable for whatever happened. The account is clearly exaggerated, but the damage to Ulfric's image is done.

Of course, the former is a propaganda piece too.

I'll say it again, it was the Empire. Igmund wasn't in any position to make a deal, he might not have even been Jarl at the time. The Empire was supposed to retake the reach, but they had to commit their forces to the Great War. Jarl Igmund says "We offered [Ulfric and his militia] them free Talos worship..." Ulfric says he was betrayed by the Empire, not Igmund. If it was a secret deal, Igmund would not be Jarl, and he would've used "I" instead of "We."

He was Jarl. His father ruled Markarth but was already dead.

Other sources say that the Empire was paying no attention to the Reach, and it is highly unlikely that the Empire would have violated the Concordat, given their slavish adherence to it.

Ulfric thinks the Empire betrayed him now matter what happens, and they were in fact the ones who demanded that Igmund arrest him.

'We' can also refer to his household. He has an older uncle with a lot of influence. It was a secret deal, but they were able to make Ulfric the scapegoat (hence how the Bear of Markarth never mentions Igmund). Igmund himself is too important to punish. The Empire needs him to keep the silver flowing and the Forsworn down.

Same can be said about those murderous and bloodcrazy stormcloaks , plus the fact that they are a bunch of Racsist biased and uninmaginitive

What if the Empire and the Argonians will unite for destroying the Dominion ?
I know it's unlikely to happen but still...

Hi,

the Empire never had any honour to begin with, neither did the earlier variants of it. Remember the roadblocks on the Valenwood borders to stop Bosmer refugees? And they were vassals of the Empire!
Just one example of Imperial "honour". GO THALMOR, there mustn`t be a dawn for men anymore...

Rgds, Haldir

Please tell me more about this..

Hi,

in a war between IIRC Khajits and Bosmer which went bad for those last the Empire stopped the Bosmer refugees and forced them back into Valenwood.
I saw this info in a post on the forum a bit ago. Besides, what kind of Empire allows wars between its vassals? It is supposed to protect all of them, at least real empires tried to.

Rgds, Haldir

The Empire reaching a compromise to the Thalmor is nothing new. When the Empire invaded Valenwood, they decided it would cost too many men to fully take over, so they let the Bosmer keep a lot of their leadership. This is just the same, agree with the Thalmor on something, however stupid, save lives and resources to defend the nations under the Emperor.

The Stormcloaks, unlike the Empire seem only capable of seeing one step ahead at a time. They firmly believe that if they defeat the Empire, then that will be the last of their troubles. They do not consider the position they then put other nations in. Valenwood, the Bosmer are already forced under the control of the Aldmeri, most Bosmer would prefer full Empire rule if we listen to the Blades in Skyrim. As much as this is not clear as its only one perspective. The nords pulling away from the Empire not only weakens the whole of Tamriel toward Aldmeri domination, but also may end up in one of two situations. The first most likely, Thalmor conquer Skyrim and the nords end up back where they were. The second, the Thalmor convince Skyrim to help destroy the Empire, then most likely revert back to the previous. It would not be hard for the Smart Altmer to convince someone as short sighted and egotistical as ulfric.

And that brings be directly to Ulfric. To have someone as him lead Skyrim would be a disaster. He is a war artist. From the start of the game, to the end of the campaign, he speaks rarely of compromise. Just listen to his speach on how the leader of Whiterun is a true Nord. Where the Empire see the future of Tamriel, Ulfric seems incapable of seeing even te short term future of Skyrim. He is partially painted by the sentimental nords at the start as a freedom fighter. A mistake I believe on Beths part. As with little further investigation, we see the inherent racism surrounding Ulfric. Lets think in real terms of leaders, with racist undertones, that convince a whole nation to stand up and fight for what they think is freedom. So the nords gain Talos worship back and arent front line for the Empire, at what cost?

Racial segregation and tensions with other races? Like I earlier said, the Thalmor are biding their time, waiting for the outcome. If it be the nords, they will see that as a red flag to move any future attack on the empire forward, meaning for Skyrim they are just another obsticle, unlike if they stick with the empire and likely thwart off another attack, or put the Thalmor off attacking all together. Look at Windhelm, how the Dunmer are treated, imagine that large scale. This would result in the possibility of most foreign races leaving Skyrim, which I dare say would mean economic disaster for Skyrim.

Strict laws and punishment? Yes the empire are little forgiving of criminals, look at how the game starts, but I would see Ulfric who already has illusions of granduer, becoming far more and more of a Tyrant. Would this push more people toward groups like the Forsworn? Would the Forsworn later join another group? Maybe in and attack the Thalmor could recruit them against Markarth.

Another thing to consider, will Ulfrics treatment of other races anger another nation? The Orcs keep a seperate appearence in Skyrim, the Redguards are barely allowed into major cities, would these two old adverseries see a facist regime as a weakness? Would Ulfric go as far to clear out Orcs from Skyrim? I think its likely, he is a warmonger, and once the Empire is out of the way, he would look for the next battle.

Fvck waiting around. We're the fvcking dragonborn. Stand aside Emperor Mede as I reclaim my rightful throne and smack all of you imperials so you know your damned place. There'll be no racism, intolerance, crime, stagnation or anything of the sort under MY rule! And if those good for nothing Thalmor so much as give me a bad look. . .

same goes for us stromcloaks though. we might even be worse. did the guy in riften have to watch?

but honestly idk what this arguing is all about like everyone is in charcater or something. the truth is that its a stupid conflict and both sides are wrong just like any irl conflict. Rich people saving their own skins, screwing over the masses, playing at their weaknesses to get their support, people too caught up in choosing a side rather than thinking, its all dreadfully familiar. And therefore well executed

Finally.

But guys... WE HAVE DRAGONS!

First we'll have to kill that [censored] delphine and ask paathurnax or odahviing for help, cuz they wouldnt like elves to come hunt them right?
Then we also have the dovakhiin who can, with a single "Storm Call" shout, wipe out around 150 soldiers or something. And that shout is recharged in 10 minutes. Imagine if the dragons fly sepperately to each of their cities and use the shout and then everything went burning and stuff.

And maybe we could ask the help of a daedric prince who favours humans above elves.

Also we could ask a dragon if he would persuade all dragonpriests and draugr to fight in th cause of humans.

I mean... There's alot more in skyrim than stormcloaks.


And geez... Why couldn't Alduin just leave Skyrim alone for a few months to eradicate the elves? -.-

Cause he's called EATER OF WORLDS , means he wants to destroy everything , what could be better than the Dominion for the task ?

Not necessarily. Stablehand notes that Igmund's father was part of the group that arrested Ulfric. When it comes to the deal, Igmund offered it. Though Bear of Markarth says the empire sanctioned it. I wouldn't put much creedence in that book though.



Could you please point out the line that states they were all executed before the control of the city was given back to the Jarl of Markarth? Execution implies the captives were in custody.

The Empire isn't fighting them. The Empire has made the party-escort submission position decision in the affirmative. It has rolled over, showed its soft underbelly, and become the Aldmeri Dominion's b**ch.
And while SOME nords are apparently willing to assume the position as well... that is simply because they are cowards. In Skyrim, the only ones voicing a willingness to fight the Thalmor and the Dominion in general are the Stormcloaks... The choice is bloody obvious, at least if one isn't inclined towards cow-juice.