Stormcloaks showing a willingness to fight the Thalmor? Puh-leez. If they want to fight the Thalmor so badly, then they should hurry up and attack them instead of wasting time fighting the Empire. Fighting the Empire only makes everyone weaker.

Only half of Skyrim doesn't really cut it. And once the war starts with the Thalmor, the Empire's going to have to take their side. It's just not feasible for the Stormcloaks to take on the Thalmor AND the Empire.

Politics, nothing but a bunch of heated words.

Having said that, the Thalmor WILL answer for their blasphemies of holy Talos. Inb4 "Talos isn't a god" despite evidence to the contrary.

I find these discussions interesting. Particularly because of the frequent mention of honour, and perhaps chivalry if you read between the lines. Such concepts do not exist in warfare; they never have.

I think the Empire did wrong by signing the White-Gold Concordat. Why? Not because it meant they gave up their honour, but because they were so attached to their honour that they didn't execute a political backstab afterwards. The Aldmeri Dominion had the Empire at a choke-hold and there was nothing they could do about it. However, since they've let go of that iron grip, opportunities have presented themselves over and over. No one significant has acted upon it.

Additionally, I don't actually think it's even remotely to separate nations and go through the frustrating and tedious process of assembling them under a common banner while most of them are occupied by the Aldmeri Legion. War just isn't a good time for weak, more or less surrendered countries to give up old alliances only to form new ones with the same countries as before.

The only way to defeat a snake is by guile and cunning. The Empire will thrive on unity and realism; not separation and bedtime-story honour.

Edit: I forgot to mention. To me, it doesn't seem like any of the Imperials openly oppose Talos-worship. I mean, a particular Legate is practically a Talos-worshipper and is one of the highest standing in the Legion - and a particular General ignores this despite hearing it first-hand. The Aldmeri Dominion is the only enemy; I'd wager most of the Imperials are just pretending to do as they're told - apart from a certain family I'm sure you're all intimately familiar with.

The Empire is about as strong as the finger Ulfric flipped them while he rode out of Solitude. The Empire has to rely on local recruiting from within the Skyrim population to bolster their forces to quell a rebellion that is extremely selective in it's recruiting (racially and honor-wise). If the Empire hasn't brought down an insurrection by now with their so-called "strength" you claim they have, then Man is doomed to serve Mer.

You can blame the Emperor wholly though, and thus the Empire, as he represents it. He is the one that started the chain reaction of [censored] hitting the fan when he gave in and signed the WGC when the Dominion was nearly fought to a stand-still.

They do love the fact that a civil war is taking place, mostly because, in my opinion, they are not NEARLY as powerful as they let on as they were severely weakened in the Great War too, not to mention it takes them far longer to build a military force capable of withstanding human-capable numbers (who spawn like rabbits compared to Mer because of the maturing rate that coincides with their very long lives), giving humans the advantage of numbers before you even take into account that the Altmer are extremely selective in their breeding and it takes a fat minute to match suitable mates that will produce "worthy Altmer" in the eyes of the Thalmor.

Like I said above, the Dominion is most certainly in a weakened state and is in no way, shape, or form able to launch another invasion on the Imperial City. Alongside their vastly reduced military, you can bet your ass that the Empire is extremely vigilant when it comes to their borders now (they jumped you crossing the border, a single person), removing the only deciding advantage the Dominion had over the Empire at the time -- the element of surprise.

The Empire's basic resources of war:
1. Silver from Markarth (wealth), which is slipping away in the war. --Possibly Gone
2. Fish and Honey from Riften (sustenance), which is now under Stormcloak control unless you trade it away or fight for the Empire to take it. --Possibly Gone
3. 1/2 of their Nord soldiers, which has sided with Ulfric in the Civil War. These soldiers are skilled sailors as well as an invaluable vanguard to any army. --Half-Gone

4. Ebony from Morrowind, which is now annexed by Argonia, an independent state from the Empire and thus is under foreign control. --Gone
5. Soldiers from Morrowind --Gone

6. Soldiers from Black Marsh --Gone (Neutral)

7. Soldiers from Elswehr --Gone (Neutral)

8. Bosmer archers, which are the finest in Tamriel --Gone (Enemies)

9. Altmer mages, the most effective crowd-control artillery-esque units Tamriel has --Gone (Enemies)

10. Redguard foot soldiers, who are the best "jack-of-all-trades" warriors in Tamriel --Gone (Forsaken to the wrath of the Thalmor)

11. Breton mages, who are the only non-Altmer mages that are on par with them; primarily defensive instead of offensive though. --Unknown (Blocked from Cyrodiil)

12. Orsimer berserkers, the finest warrior shock-troops the Empire can get --Unknown (Also blocked)


As you can see, the Empire doesn't exactly have the resources you boast about. Not the kind it needs anyway. The stormcloaks are obviously feared by the Thalmor, as they don't want them to win the war either.

The Stormcloaks are xenophobes hopped on on Ulfric's hope-ium. They've got their head in the clouds and don't see the big picture.

The Empire is just scrambling to keep itself from falling apart anymore, though it's pretty much too little too late. They see things past just the Civil War since they've got more things to worry about.

Stormcloaks win, all the non-Nords are ostracized and harassed and would have to up and move elsewhere, most of which is also alien, or also a wreck like Morrowind, or further under the Thalmor's thumb.

Empire wins, they can I guess focus on the Thalmor problem or at least keep what they've got left a haven for all peoples, even if the Thalmor just keep kidnapping bros and stuff.

Sooooo basically lesser of two evils. Either way the Thalmor are able to literally plan past the lifetimes of the Nords and Imperials, so all timelines are the darkest and there's no right answer.

The Khajiit of Elsweyr are actually enemies now - they sided with the Thalmor because they think they brought the moons back.
Not ALL Bosmer are enemies, for reasons such as Malborn's. I feel like the Imga might be a problem though, since they worship Altmer.
Bretons are probably ok, no-news-is-good-news is the best the Empire can hope for now. But they're probably at least a little worried.
Orcs are probably mixed. After Orsinium got sacked, the Empire helped them get to Skyrim. And a lot of Orcs traditionally serve in the Imperial Legion, but I think they generally get along with Nords ok. I'm pretty sure they don't have all the orcs to say the least.

There's not a whole lot that's super conclusive on the matter, but I figured that the situation with Elsweyr and the Khajiit is similar to Valenwood and the Bosmer. The only thing known about Elsweyr and the Thalmor is that, yes, the Khajiit hailed them as saviors but about fifteen years after the Void Nights, the Thalmor staged a coup, destroyed the current government in Elsweyr, and re-instated ages old kingdoms as Thalmor states. Again it doesn't say but I doubt the Khajiit were A-OK with this unless they really are that mellow. Similar to how Valenwood was absorbed by the Dominion but the Thalmor conduct purges there as described by Delphine.

I always had the impression Khajiit are http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ahzirr_Traajijazeri.

The biggest problem for the Thalmor is that Talos is not just a god, he is alive and even once walked right into their embassy. This happened around the time mighty Talos slayed the World-Eater both on top of the Throut of the World and in Sovngarde under the eyes of mighty Shor. Why did he do it? To extend the current Kalpa so the mighty Nords may crush both the traitors in Cyrodiil and the Thalmor.
At least that's what I'm hoping for.

But honestly, the Redguard pretty much proved that you don't need an empire to humiliate the sobbing elves, all it takes is the will to fight. But the empire wouldn't know that, how should they? They signed a contract with elves to drop the worship of the one god who created said empire by his own hands.

I see both sides of the story, logically, but I can't side with the Empire. I don't condone of their methods, I don't condone the banning of Talos, and I couldn't in good conscience support a lap dog of the Aldmeri, who I despise with all my being. Furthermore, they seem to just execute anyone who doesn't agree with them or their methods, as witnessed on multiple occasions in-game. That's not exactly a legal system I can approve of either. They've lost the grip on their empire, and they're desperately trying to hang on with nothing to hang on to. It's time for the Nords to take back, and rule, what is rightfully theirs. As for them standing against the Aldmeri, they have as good a chance as any.All Nords are able bodied men and women and can pick up arms and defend their homes with a fury that no stinking mer can stand against. People defending their homes are worth twice any imperial soldier.

I feel like supporting the empire is a bit like rooting for Darth Vader in Star Wars...

By the way, after reading a few posts I feel it worth mentioning,the Empire didnt "lose" to the Thalmor in the great war, they probably could have won if they stuck with it especially once the Redguards started kicking elven butt in Hammerfell. They signed the concordat to stop the bloodshed not because they lost, I mean they ended up taking the Imperial City back and completely crushed the elves there. Just thought it was worth mentioning

Edit: Don't get me wrong though they are pussies for signing it, but at least they aint the bloody Rebel Alliance, instead taking the place of the much much cooler Galactic Empire <3

I don't agree with the attitude of the Empire but one thing I feel is strange about Tamriel: in terms of all-out massive battles with thousands of fighters magic seems superiour.

Could you imagine a huge army with thousands of master wizards? Thousands of them casting a wall of flame, making it 10 metre tall and 1000 metre long. Hundreds of wizards casting calm/fear on the opposition. Conjurers could summon thousands of dremora lords and atronachs to fight on their side. Necromancers can stand from afar reviving anyone that dies to fight for them.

What does the races that aren't traditional magic races have? Mostly melee weapons, the only ranged weapon are bows, they can use catapults I guess but they're complicated to make, maintain and move...

In the Elder Scrolls universe anyone is capable of becoming a mage. I don't think the empire would ever go into a battle against elves without having battle mages, and mages to cast defense spells on the warriors.

You can overcome magic users with the right potions alchemy is not strictly magic more of a science. All you would need is damage magic regain 100% and damage magic fired from a catapult. Then all your facing is a bunch of people in silly robes armour and cold steel will soon make short work of them.

It's the definition of a conditional surrender. The thalmor gave up nothing whereas the empire ceded several things.

There is a hope that if the empire is shrugged off, and if High Rock, Hammerfell, and Skyrim, and possibly the united forces of Morrowind and the Black Marsh (gods help us) get together... But maybe words are wind eh? (Particularly with the Dunmer and Argonians, but hell, they have a common enemy in the Thalmor.)

Every empire falls! the Cyrodiilic Empire is no exception and it's about damn time it falls! It ended with the Septims and the current Dynasty isn't worthy not because they aren't Dragonborn or whatnot but because they rule the empire like sissies.

Maybe fate in fact dictates that whichever side the Dovahkiin chooses will be the winning side (as is the case in the civil war) and thus defeat the Aldmeri Dominion. Empires start and end with the gift of Dragonblood.

And that's that argument come to an end.

What did you guys read to come up with stuff like that ?!

The civil war doesn't exsist. These are only characters, they live in your PC's, XBOX's and PS3's (oh and obviosly in your head too). Just pick a side you favor and fight for a cause you feel comfortable with or heck, just don't pick a side. There is always a choice.
Everyone seems to be terrified of the Dominion. No need, I'm sure each person here could single-handedly take them down.

mixed unit tactics and more specifically a dance in fire are both about that conflict: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/dance-fire and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/mixed-unit-tactics.

Come to the Dark Side. We have delicious cake.

The silverblood guy in markarth standing up by the palace had a pretty good view of the civil war for a NPC, although completely about the storm cloaks he tells you about how ulfric saved markarth from being over thrown, fought all across skyrim as a true hero, all about the treaty and the outlaw of talos. Really you'll sighn to an agreement to outlaw the religion of whole species of people who hold the majority
population of a continent....... Those dirty elf lovers cant keep the emperor safe from assassins, or the high king safe from being blown apart, so how can they protect the people of skyrim?

It was a challenge, and Torygg had no choice but to accept. Ulfric defeated him quickly and efficiently, as the court-members who were there will testament. They were honour-bound not to interfere.

Besides, as I've said before, apart from the Battle-Borns (and that matter revolved around a family feud) I'm struggling to find evidence that the Imperials are trying to root out Talos-worship at all. Quite the opposite, it seems. Even the General, from Cyrodil, turns a blind eye. All you hear him talk about is ending the civil war.