People want power.




Very true. And exactly what I put earlier except Thief put it better. It's all point of view.

But that's just it, it didn't change. Tribal societies still exist around the world. And when I say "tribal," I don't necessarily mean loin cloths, and bones through the noses, and primitive technology, although they are still present today. You can have the philosophy and teachings of a tribal community, in a completely technologically advanced society. One of the single biggest reasons man is how they are today, and one of the biggest contributors to many of the problems in our World and society, is money. Not so much money in general, but the Market System and man's control over it. A close second would be Mass Media, which ties into money anyway. Like Thomas Jefferson said:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks),will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Of course it didn't change but at one time is was the only/dominant ideology of the time. Yes I am very aware of tribal-eqse societies living in the world today. Not just Africa but the Americas and Asia as well. Beautiful Jefferson quote btw. Its true that in our effete modern society money has become the new god and the media is there to tell us whatever they want us to think. One of the reasons why Politics at least in the US but likely in many societies is so divided.

Back to what Rammer said, people want power. Of course they do since people are rarely satisfied with what they have. Especially when we are raised in a society that teaches us from a young age what we always need what they have. Reminds me of this:

The Parable of The Mexican Fisherman And The Banker

An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.

The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied, "Only a little while." The banker then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican fisherman replied he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman replied, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos: I have a full and busy life, senor."

The investment banker scoffed, "I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You could spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, and with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats until eventually you would have a whole fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to the middleman you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You could control the product, processing and distribution."

Then he added, "Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City where you would run your growing enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But senor, how long will this all take?"

To which the American replied, "15-20 years."

"But what then?" asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You could make millions."

"Millions, senor? Then what?"

To which the investment banker replied, "Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

Brilliant little parable.

You are right that SOCIETY "teaches" us this. This is important to point out, because many people believe humans are inherently greedy, competitive, and evil. These beliefs are completely false. Humans are shaped and conditioned by their environment, because in reality, a Gandhi baby is the same thing as a Hitler baby.

Damn commies! Gotta love the whole fighting equality crap huh? Its more like give me your water ration or i'll shoot you in the face. But hey we won't have the fail ninjas so we still win.

Tabula Rasa. As for Hilter it was all the Austrian Art Schools fault.

I dont think the Resistance are terrorists but the Security have a better point. The Resistance wasnt supposed to be there in the first place. The founders didnt have to let them on the Ark, but they did. Now the rebels are crying because they want more stuff? They would all be dead if it wasnt for the founders of the Ark. The Security is just upholding law and order, like police do. Sure, i see where the resistance people are coming from, but the fact that its either give them rations of food or give them more and then the Ark's food supply goes down even faster. For people who were never supposed to be on the Ark, they should be grateful. Who agrees?

:foodndrink: :goodjob:

Nobody was really "supposed" to be there....Natural Disasters kinda put a kink in peoples plans...


they don't want more, they want equal.

You make it sound like they foresaw the floods in a psychic dream, and built the Ark solely for that purpose...It was all coincidence, and besides, The Ark was built for the very purpose to help mankind.


Yeah, because the Police are always in the right....

So your logic is keep the refugee's rationed so food lasts longer? Wouldn't it make even more sense then to ration EVERYONE - the food will last even longer.


There you go with the "supposed" to be on the Ark......The Ark was a prototype. Eventually they would have built more for ALL the planet's people. They weren't building private, floating clubs and resorts. They were designed to be technological marvels, to aid in helping with the problems man faces today. The refugee's were exactly where they should have been - It is the whole basis behind the concept of he Ark.

Do we know for a certain fact that the Security has more resources? It just doesn't seem the thing to advertise to the downtrodden populace.

It says so on the main site:

"Most Security personnel have volunteered because they're convinced that for the Ark to survive it must have peaceful order and conserve its remaining resources. And the extra water ration comes in useful too."

Take what they are given and be happy? Does this include the Founders using the refugee's for slave labor, or how The Ark maintains functionality due to the refugee's work? You make it sound like they took them in, made things all cozy and should be grateful. I think that alone deserves just as much food and water as Johnny Good Cop, who goes home to relatively nice living quarters every day and may or may not actually due any "security" related work everyday.


Your logic makes no sense, and you are just arguing semantics. If I get 1 meal a day and you get 3, how is asking for 3 more? It's what you have. Now if you want to be technical (which are just to preserve your argument) yes 3 is more than 1, but when you have 3 to begin with, how am I in the wrong? I wasn't asking for 5 or 6....The Ark isn't a Union - there is no seniority built into it, where you get more because you were here longer. It boggles my mind how you can look at the Resistance as greedy, when The Founders and the Security get more rations than Resistance, and are willing to fight to keep them, rather than just distribute things evenly. Talk about a waste of resources...


So the Founders and the Security had a choice? I guess they were just doing some volunteer work, right? NOBODY has a choice - the Planet flooded - EVERYONE is a refugee now, thus resources should be distributed equally among EVERYONE.


lol, so basically you're saying, "I understand law enforcement can be corrupt, but not the Security..." Yeah, the "logical" thing to do is go to war rather than re-distribute resources equally - I hope you're not the Police Chief...


So basically your going for the "that's good enough," approach? - "We gave you food and shelter, now shut up!" - Doesn't exactly sound like the solution that "Mankind's Last Salvation (The Ark)" would propose. Also, saying the food was for the original occupants, is not really accurate at all. Do you really think that the entire Security force are comprised of Generation 1 Ark inhabitants? The Arks been around for like 30+ years now, so I guess that means the Security are a bunch of geriatric rent a cops? BS - The food is for ANYONE who joins their cause, using food/water as an incentive and form of persuasion to join their ranks, and deliberately using it as a tool to segregate resources among the factions. I guess it's easy to say make due with what you got, when you are looking down on them in your comfy home, and extra resources...


It's not about getting what they want, it's about getting what they deserve. And if you really believe that the war is totally started by the Resistance, due in no part to Security or the Founders, than you are truly naive.

What one calls work, another calls slave labor. Notice how I am not completely over hauling the refugees, saying they are a bunch of no good terrorists. Nobody said that the refugee's lives were "cozy", but then, would you rather be dead somewhere in the ocean? Or in a roofed home with at least some food. I would choose the home.



My "logic" is stating the obvious. You also have to remember the old "life isn't fair" saying. The Ark natives were on the Ark, doing their work. Security was just for VIP protection. Then came the great flood that washed all of the refugees in. I imagine things were pretty hectic. The founders were probably scrambling to figure out what to do, i mean, they only had 25,000+ people wanting shelter.
Again I must say: The founder's didn't have to let the refugees stay there. They could have executed all of them on sight. It wouldn't be illegal seeing as the Ark is(was) private property that wasn't open to the public, and it could be called trespassing. Now, it does indeed go against what the Ark is for, but im just saying, they didnt have to shelter the refugees. But they did.



Yes, they had a choice. The whole planet wasn't flooded, only most of the mainlands.



No, that is not what im basically saying. If the security sticks to what SD wrote as their background story and intentions, then they are honorable. Apparently declining the refugees demands started an attack, seeing as the refugees are the ones who started it. Not the war, per say, but the motive. They want equality, they dont get it, they start getting hostile.



"Mankind's last salvation" was in development, and for all we know, still is. When they refer to the Ark as "mankind's last salvation", they are saying that that is what they are foreseeing it to be.
No, the Security arent rent-a-cops. They are more then likely offspring of the original occupants of the Ark. For all we know, they had a security draft.


I will agree with you on one thing: The resistance may deserve more of what they are receiving. And no part of me believes the resistance are the only ones to blame for this civil war. I dont agree with the Founder's decision, and I dont really agree with the Founders. Before we continue with this argument, let me tell you that I do not hate the resistance. I dont dislike them. I just chose the Security. My reasons for siding with Security are 1.I like their outfits. 2.Im going to work in law enforcement. 3.I believe in upholding law and order.

If I have ever said I hate the resistance, it was a joke. I am highly interested in both stories, which is why im playing both to get the story for each one.

Now, back to the feud. My last statement is simple: The Security is a police force. The Founders give orders to Security. The Security follows orders. So is it the Founders or the Security that is really the menacing rival of the resistance? Security are the ones that actually fight with the Resistance, but they are following orders given by the Founders. Cant blame a good soldier for following orders.

That's such a cop-out reason - using "following orders" as a scapegoat. They may be Soldiers, but they are still human beings. I would think that at least some of them can see the difference between an outright crime and just fighting for survival or equal rights. It's all cause and effect, and The Founders/Security are the ultimate cause.

It's like Big Government passing some laws that the public doesn't approve of, and in response, the people rally and protest. To counter the uprising, instead of the Government changing or amending the new laws, they order police to "contain" the situation. The Founder's chose to distribute resources unfairly, causing an uprising among the refugee's, and instead of a fairer distribution of resources, they send out their thugs who are only "following orders." What if your wife or your child, or someone else you knew or loved was on the Resistance? Or what about in real life - if someone you knew or loved was among the people you were sent to "contain." Would you still just "follow orders?" Why do you even follow these orders? Who are these "Founders?" Did they create the Planet? Do they know the meaning of life? Did they plant the first seed that spawned into the human race we see now? No. They are just men - who cares what they think or what they want, the Security have minds of their own, and can think for themselves. This is the main reason I could never work in the Military or law enforcement - because I do what I believe is right, not some guy with a higher pay grade than me. If the Security want to be a bunch of indoctrinated lackeys for the Founders, well that's a whole other argument.

I see why you support the Resistance. And if you want to call it a "cop out" reason, go right ahead. There is really no proving each other wrong about what they believe is right. But when you are an officer of law enforcement, you follow the orders that your commanding officers give you. Thats just how it works. Dont ask me why. And if a Security officer's family was on the opposing side, he wouldnt do it. Unless he didnt love his family. Following orders isnt a "scapegoat". Its simply what it is. You find it as a scapegoat because you dont believe the Founder's decision was fair or correct.
I never said "Security is right, Resistance is wrong.", although im sure you can find something I have said and take it out of context to make it sound that way.

Resistance: Fighting for fair treatment.
Security: Fighting to uphold peace and order to the Ark.
In my opinion, both make sense.

Contradict me if you will, but I dont see where else this argument can go. There cant be a winner or loser, because SD made this storyline specifically so people would argue about this and so that neither side would be right. Its all personal beliefs. Interesting discussion, though.

I would say the Founders themselves are always in the wrong due to the fact they don't have limited rations or resources whatsoever, and whatever Founders are still likely just live in that tower of theirs while commanding the Security around. Now the entire goal of keeping the Ark peaceful and the way it is I understand, just not with the current leaders.

I think that the security should have more food/water because they are risking there lives to do there job whereas the refugees do easier jobs so deserve less and the founder are the owns and leaders of the ark so should also get more food/water than any other group of people on the ark.

Just wondering, but did you get this from a Jimmy John's poster?



Here you are wrong. The refugees do the harder more physically demanding jobs that keep the ark afloat. Not the other way around. I used this example in another post.

Example: Two people are working on a house on a hot day. One is sitting in the shade "supervising" while the other is actually putting up the house by hand. There is one glass of water so who should get it? In Brink, who does? And if you can't answer those right, there's problems...

Thats how The American Civial war was fought. Brother against brother. During cease fires some would even chat one another like we text.

i heard in an article that something like this will be part of the story. its like some guy on the security's brother joins the resistance

The one who owns the glass should get the water = the founders own the ark so they should pick who gets water and how much.

:facepalm:

I will guarantee that an athlete drinks more water than a supervisor at a company no matter how much the supervisor uses their brain. In school, I play football out in the hot sun after school everyday. I drink literally 10 times more water during football than during school.

Same thing applies with a laborer.

I must agree with Rammer on this one. The person who does more work, deserves more water. But for the Resistance, they shouldnt have started getting hostile to get their demands.

they are getting hostile in order to survive. on the ark the people who do nothing get the water