Flamers use explosives for fuel, therefore have more in common with the explosive weapons than they do with energy weapons, which use electricity stored in batteries.

How can you cook a flame?

Explosives for fuel?
By the way, it's like this: If it explodes, it's an Explosives weapon, if it use conventional bullets then it's a Guns weapon and basically anything else is an Energy Weapon. (At least that's what Sawyer said pre-release.)

And Explosives aren't meant to have a close-combat weapon.
That's why the skill is called Explosives.
All skills have good sides and bad sides, the bad side about explosives is that you shouldn't use it's weapon when an enemy is close to you.
On that note, they should be a tad more powerful though to make up for their cost and rare ammo.

Yeah, flamer fuel. It's an explosive.



Maybe they should make the ballistic fist explosive then.

Oh, I guess that's why Unarmed has weapons.

*Face Palm*
The pressurized container of the fuel may explode, but the fuel itself ain't explosive

1. They use burning petro chemicals. Not beams of energy.
2. "If it explodes"? Ever used an Incinerator?
3. "Everything else is Energy". How about "everything else is based on Sneak", makes as much sense.
4. Why exactly aren't Explosives meant to be viable in close range? All other weapon types are.
5. What is the bad side of Guns? People in the forum calling you an AMR newb?
6. Again, why shouldn't you be able to use Explosives up close? Look at youtube, people are doing rocket-jumps with Fat Man to get by this silly design choice when they want to use Explosives exclusively. I think it SHOULD be improved.
7. Make them more powerful for what? They are completely redundant in Energy category.
8. The only perk boosting them is based on Explosives meaning you take Meltdown to cause Explosions - and then you take Pyromaniac and train Explosives for it to have a weapon to use in close range?
9. Why isn't Flamer ammo convertable to other energy ammo unlike everything else in energy category?
10. Why is the only Flamer perk based on Explosives not Energy if they are so energetic?

I've modded Flamers in my game to be Explosives. Works like a charm and makes my Explosives character 10x more pleasurable to play. Try it and see for yourself how much it changes the entire picture of this category and how much more viable it makes it allowing to get through the entire game without stupid rocket jumps.

...

The container would explode if shot because the fuel is friggin' explosive in many circumstances. Are you being serious? Military flamethrowers like the one the game is based off (M2A1) were literally filled with just gasoline and nitrogen, and the nitrogen was only used to propel ignited gasoline.

1) Neither do Gauss, Plasma and Telsa weapon shots beams of energy

2) It could have been a bulb of fuel splash all over the place

3) Just quoting Sawyer

4) The same reason why melee's longest reach is throwing spear

5) No simple ammo conversion, higher spread.

6) Do you think it is fun to shoot slugs with Grenade Launcher?

7) Actually, multiple member how express how incinerator/flamer allow them to carry on with EW while it is horribly shafted prior 1.1.0.285(whatever the lated patch fix DT issue).

8) I don't know why Pyromaniac have a skill requirement at: there is flaming weapon across 4 categories.

9) Because it isn't nuclear powered batteries? It is just like saying why is there rifle powder and pistol powder.

10) That is just point 8



Mod whatever you like, but I personally think it is a good move that Sawyer move flame big guns to EW.

1. Ok.
2. Incinerator doesn't explode, the ball of fire pops and spreads out.
3. I don't get it.
4. Because all weapon skills are meant to have pro's and con's, you pick Unarmed then you go for fast close combat (Fo1/2), you pick Melee and you go for heavy damage close combat (Fo1/2). Explosives, to me, are meant to be really powerful and be able to take out multiple enemies with a single strike, the downside is, they get close and you don't have any other weapons then you're either [censored] or is going to take a lot of damage trying to kill them.
4a. To explain the unarmed and melee bit, in the old games you could get in a lot of unarmed attacks to enemies during your round but they didn't do as much damage as melee weapons, while melee on the other hand required more action points meaning less attacks but packing more damage.
4b. Same applies to the old Small Guns and EW, Small Guns were meant to be weapons that are easily available and has very common ammo while Energy Weapons are far more expensive and rare but do more damage.
5. Guns aren't meant to have a true downside on their own, but when comparing the skill to Big Guns, EW or Explosives it should become clear that Guns should be availability over damage. The other classes should have more damage and be far more dangerous once you get a hold of their weapons. But then again, they failed on that part and tried to "balance" it which has left the Guns skill in New Vegas with no downside as far as I can see.
6. :mellow:
7. Not flamers, Explosives weapons, lots of them fail to do damage against high DT targets.
8. I don't get it.
9. :shrug:
10. Well, I call fail design on that part.
11. I'd rather not, I like having pro's and con's. I picked Explosive skill and now I can take out multiple enemies really quickly, but if they come near me I take a lot of damage as well, I find it to be a fair trade since it doesn't make me too powerful.


4/4a/4b/5. This is how I interpret the game design for the skills, the skills aren't meant to be "equal" to one another. So anyway, "4/4a/4b/5." can have a /opinion I guess. :shrug:

I was once band from sinoca because of dear ammo!

Ummmmmm, this is not a discussion on the flamer's placement in the weapons categories.

flamer fuel isn't explosive it's flammable and it would only explode if you shot the tank of fuel due to high pressure

so that means a ford transit is an explosive rofl brothel

1. Where are moderators to stop the 14 years olds (mentally at least) spamming the thread with their "rofl" arguments? We're on the tight post count rules here, this kind of BS only limits people who have something with sense to say from saying it before the thread is shut down.

2. You are denying Flamers and Incinerators membership in Explosives but you are yet to prove they in the slightest belong in Energy. Look at Flamer fuel, how much it doesn't belong in the category where ALL other weapons use batteries which you can freely convert between types. It's not a freaking battery, it's a chemical agent in a barrel, thickened fuel which as far as expertise goes is far closer to conventional explosive weapons than battery-based plasma or laser weaponry. So where's the proof Flamers belong in energy with Lasers and Gauss more than with Grenades and Mines, some of which are also chemical agents? And if they belong, how about converting Flamer Fuel to MFC.

3. This discussion belongs here because Flamers might as well be considered weakest weapon in the game being dumped into a category they don't belong into at all, with a perk that's not related to this category and where they aren't even needed due to a vast choice of stronger alternatives. Look at reviews for example, how many of them mentioned surprise Flamers are now in Energy. Tell me your first reaction to reading they were moved over here was "of course" rather than "why the hell would they put them here".

yes, it dosen't belong in either although you could debate that it goes in either they should of called the GUNS skill big and small guns and just put it in there.

I have to mention the Laser RCW. When I first got it I was like "Holy [censored] laser tommygun!" But it eats through energy cells like Augustus Gloop from Willy Wonka eats through candy. It is also extremely inaccurate and doesn't do that much damage. I found I had to repair it often too, even though the Fiends use it a lot it got really annoying.

Laser RCW inaccurate? First time I've seen anyone say that.

It is the most accurate hose in the game.

Yeah laser RCW is fantastic for unarmored enemies. Plus if you get the energy recycler mod it doesn't use (and also if you've got efficient recycling you can get a lot of rounds back)

Far superior to its big brother the gatling laser, which really does go through ammo at a ridiculous rate.

Last time I check flamer weapon is the only EW answer to Deathclaw besides Gauss......

Counter argument regarding to point 2:
-Thicken fuel is actually *further* away from explosive because thickening lower its rapid expansion rate that in case of fuel "explosion".

-Flame weapon rely on thermal energy transfer heat to target to do damage (like Laser/Plasma), unlike explosive which rely on rapid release of its chemical energy.

-Plasma is super heated matter, using violate chemical would lower the energy require to turn it into plasma.

-As for the batteries argument: they can change the flame weapons so that it consume battery you know.

Never tried it, but all pistols in Vegas are better, aren't they?

It's mainly a byproduct of how there damage effect are calculated vs. the DT system. EW are being patch to have innate DT penetration IIRC.

Rubbish. Flamer fuel is no more explosive than gunpowder, which is considered a "propellant" for a reason- because it doesn't burn at a rate high enough to be classified as an explosive. Unlike true explosives, neither gunpowder nor flamer fuel will explode if poured onto a flat surface and ignited. Both will burn- while TNT or C-4, set off under the same conditions (open space, not in any sort of container) can indeed explode- because unlike flamer fuel and gunpowder, they are actually explosive compounds.

The worst weapon is a BB gun, against a Deathclaw....without any BBs.

Not pretty.

And yet, Incendiary grenades are explosives instead of energy weapons.

Even if it doesn't perfectly fit under some definitions of explosives, it fits better than it does under energy weapons. In game explosives almost all do damage via a chemical reactions or with shrapnel sent flying by chemical reactions, while almost all energy weapons use batteries and electricity. Except flamer and incinerator, which do damage via chemical reaction.

And again, even if it fit in energy weapons as good as it fills a gap in explosives (close range) that energy weapons already has answers for. Unless you have meltdown, almost any energy weapon can be used at close range.