The worst weapon in the game : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:37 pm

Any chance you could move Flamers to Explosives? I'm telling you, it's an entirely new game once you get something to defend yourself with from a charging enemy.

I actually think this is a good idea. It gives explosives a close-range option, and just feels like it fits in more with the skill than it does energy weapons. Pyromaniac requiring explosives skill would make a lot more sense if there was something besides incendiary grenades in explosives to take advantage of it.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:12 pm

In any case, the sniper rifles were never intended to be such a large jump up from the hunting rifle and certainly weren't intended to outshine the AMR in overall utility.

Gonna lower the damage? I thought it was weird how we jump from the hunting rifle at 45 damage to the sniper rifle at 62. You get more power from a longer barrel and more efficient rifling geometry, but definitely not 25%. Considering that the sniper rifle already pretty much guarantees that you will the be the first one to shoot (and score a sneak-crit for 300% damage)...

I also still believe that the suppressor on the sniper rifle is a big part of why it's such a superior weapon. It's by far the most powerful silent weapon available, which lets you keep sneaking and scoring head shots left and right with it.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:55 pm

Gonna lower the damage? I thought it was weird how we jump from the hunting rifle at 45 damage to the sniper rifle at 62. You get more power from a longer barrel and more efficient rifling geometry, but definitely not 25%. Considering that the sniper rifle already pretty much guarantees that you will the be the first one to shoot (and score a sneak-crit for 300% damage)...

I also still believe that the suppressor on the sniper rifle is a big part of why it's such a superior weapon. It's by far the most powerful silent weapon available, which lets you keep sneaking and scoring head shots left and right with it.

I imagine it will only get a slight damage nerf, along with a massive critical multiplier nerf (which won't really effect the weapon's intended purpose). Would not be surprised to see it dropped down to 1x.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:54 am

Yes, that's my bet too. Sniper rifles retain their 100% crit chance from sneak attacks but they lose their 100% crit rate when used in normal combat meaning they won't be that good an option to fire off the hip as they are now. Meaning that after you are "detected", you are better off switching to your backup...

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:20 pm

Yes, that's my bet too. Sniper rifles retain their 100% crit chance from sneak attacks but they lose their 100% crit rate when used in normal combat meaning they won't be that good an option to fire off the hip as they are now. Meaning that after you are "detected", you are better off switching to your backup...

Yeah, basically my guess. I imagine one of the things the Gobi will get over the SR is a slight crit multiplier buff, maybe 1.5x-2.0x instead of 1x since it cannot be silenced.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:39 am

Isn't the main advantage of the Anti-Materiel Rifle its ability to ignore DT? If that's the case then the problem isn't with the weapon, it's with the fact that there are no high DT enemies in the game.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:42 pm

Isn't the main advantage of the Anti-Materiel Rifle its ability to ignore DT? If that's the case then the problem isn't with the weapon, it's with the fact that there are no high DT enemies in the game.

The AMR doesn't ignore DT. It just does really well against armor because it has a very high base damage.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:16 am

Isn't the main advantage of the Anti-Materiel Rifle its ability to ignore DT? If that's the case then the problem isn't with the weapon, it's with the fact that there are no high DT enemies in the game.

It doesn't bypass DT, it just blows through it.

» Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:51 am

It's a pretty good way to take two demonstrably overpowered capital-G Guns and put them into their intended hierarchy relative to other capital-G Guns.

.308 Winchester bullets usually come in weights that are significantly lower than comparable handgun bullets. They have a lot of propellant flinging them around, but a typical .308 weighs about 170 gr compared to a typical .44 Magnum bullet in the high 200s to mid-300 gr weight range. In the real world, .308 is powerful because it moves fast and it's used for long-ish range shooting because of its ballistic coefficient. I.e. it cuts through air well and has a relatively flat trajectory. It also deals better with body armor than a large, fat handgun bullet because of its velocity and cross-sectional density.

In any case, the sniper rifles were never intended to be such a large jump up from the hunting rifle and certainly weren't intended to outshine the AMR in overall utility.

I stated a few days ago on the forums that I've added DT bypass to base/OC/MC Energy Weapon ammo types (other than flamer fuel) and tuned a lot of the DAM and ammo consumption values for individual Energy Weapons.

Tuning Explosives is difficult due to how the damage falloff works, but I've adjusted a few of the more problematic Explosives for the patch as well.

Thank you sir, not necessarily for the changes your going to make to MY beloved .308 but for the fact that you came on and took part in the discussion. I would also like to add a thanks for the explination you have provided as opposed to what is sometimes the typical developer response, "because we want it that way, or we can". Your logic of your proposed changes, while i will be sad to loose the ability to hunt DCs in relative silence from ranges where the the cross hair totally obscures the target, plus the consideration to provide the information goes along way in making the changes easier to accept. It does not feel arbirtary as it would have had you not taken the time to provide an explination, thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Asai

» Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:15 am

In any case, the sniper rifles were never intended to be such a large jump up from the hunting rifle and certainly weren't intended to outshine the AMR in overall utility.

Good. The Anti-Materiel Rifle doing less overall damage than the Sniper Rifle makes no sense. I mean, Anti-Materiel Rifles as a rule are more powerful than any other man-portable rifle, hence their namesake... They're designed to destroy things like vehicles, unexploded ordinance, and in some cases; the craniums of unsuspecting victims.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Gobi>Sniper, though. Nothing beats 100% crit.

Sniper > Gobi

Sniper has a 100% critical also, and nothing beats a silencer on a high powered weapon.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:06 pm

Pew Pew in HC mode svcks.
Sure it may seem like a nice gun, until you realize it uses over 1lb of ammo per shot.

» Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:31 am

For those who are interested, the Sniper Rifle and Gobi Campaign Rifle are coming down into the realm of mortal beings with the upcoming patch. They are still highly effective in their intended roles, but are not the solution to all the world's problems.

To think I looked up to you. :cryvaultboy: :cryvaultboy: :cryvaultboy:

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:40 pm

For those who are interested, the Sniper Rifle and Gobi Campaign Rifle are coming down into the realm of mortal beings with the upcoming patch. They are still highly effective in their intended roles, but are not the solution to all the world's problems.

This is the best thing I've seen here today. I'm interested in exactly what the changes are, but long as the De facto "20% critical chance character" is no long the game's easy mode I'm happy. Lots of otherwise wonderful guns are being overshadowed by these two overpowered abominations.

Edit: My vote is still the "BB Gun", it's so bad I think people forget it's even in the game.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:42 pm

Silenced .22 pistol.

Pointless being silenced if you have to shoot them ten times before they fall over....

Moira offered me the stick to test...even in my innocence there was no way I was going to prance through the wastelands armed with any cr*p from her.....

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:25 pm

The silenced .22 might be the worst gun but I used that thing up until the very end.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:20 pm

Figures they're tweaking Energy Weapons after I deleted my Energy guy for being such a wuss.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:33 pm

They should probably nerf the +50% damage hand loaded .308 as that's one of the reasons the sniper is so kick ass.

Oh, and the silenced .22, you can sneak it into the casinos obviously. With HP bullets a sneak critical to the head isn't that bad.....

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:35 pm

They should probably nerf the +50% damage hand loaded .308 as that's one of the reasons the sniper is so kick ass.

Don't touch my JSP ammo. It's the reason why my Hunting Rifle is still lethal at long range late in the game.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:13 pm

I actually think this is a good idea. It gives explosives a close-range option, and just feels like it fits in more with the skill than it does energy weapons. Pyromaniac requiring explosives skill would make a lot more sense if there was something besides incendiary grenades in explosives to take advantage of it.

It is foolish to move Flamer to explosive, it is just saying Tesla cannon should be explosive because it is AOE.

Given how rigrug Hunting rifle is, I don't feel sniper rifle have too much base damage :shrug: if it have a inherent DT instead of extra damage I am cool with the change as well.

Again, the popularity of sniper rifle over AMR/bush rifle is that the former have too low ROF to be consider for general purpose and the later's ammo is scarce.

But most lever action would be annoying to use if the control freeze continues after the patch.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:57 pm

It is foolish to move Flamer to explosive, it is just saying Tesla cannon should be explosive because it is AOE.

Is there an actual argument in here somewhere? Your completely unrelated example isn't one for sure. Or maybe you are just trolling for the fun of it?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:55 am

Is there an actual argument in here somewhere? Your completely unrelated example isn't one for sure. Or maybe you are just trolling for the fun of it?

Huh?
Flamers doesn't explode, therefor they should not be moved into a skill focusing on things that do explode.
Same with Tesla Cannon, it does not explode really, the energy beam packs such force that it expands on impact.
Plasma bolts also expand a couple of centimeters on impact.
Just cause the energy expands doesn't mean it "explodes".
At least that's how I see it.

It's like a balloon with paint in it I guess.
It does not explode on impact.
It pops.
But what happens?
The paint will release from the balloon and expand over the area of impact.
If on the other hand you had a small rubber ball big enough as your pinky finger and the ball ignites and creates a new mass much greater than it's original size then it explodes.
The Tesla beam does not create a new mass, it's always the same mass, just that on impact it expands.

...
My brain just broke...
Too much heavy thinking for this poor fish..
If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me, I think I'm way off here myself.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:17 pm

It is foolish to move Flamer to explosive, it is just saying Tesla cannon should be explosive because it is AOE.

It wouldn't be foolish at all. The weapon does not have a really solid place in any of the skills sets if you're going to base it on strict real-world logic.

As far as game balance (which is the only thing that really matters IMO), it would make sense to give explosives at least one close-range option. You also have to consider that the Flamer does not work well whatsoever with EW centric perks - in particular, it is really not a good weapon if the EW user takes Meltdown. The only Flamer-specific perk requires 60 Explosives skill. It gives an Explosives user a reason to actually use the workbench for weapon purposes besides creating Bottlecap Mines. It broadens a currently narrow weapon skill and takes away very, very little from a more well-rounded weapon skill.

I don't even really see a real argument for having it in EW to begin with. It already has a set of heavy weaponry on par with Guns without the Flamer.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:30 am

You realize if you cook your flame to 4000C you get plasma don't you?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:23 pm

You realize if you cook your flame to 4000C you get plasma don't you?

Sounds like a different weapon, one that might require a more specialized skillset in energy-based weapons.