[Causon-Chambers]

The book wasn't fictional and useless until Skyrim messed up the vampires.

How did you know? A book is a book... Even if it is in a game. It could've always been fictional or not.. Give me actual proof that the book was correct on the Volkihar that we all had seen before Skyrim.. Cause as far as I know, Skyrim is the official Volkihar Lore.

~Edit~

Read my quote down below.

[Code Affinity]

At least we both agree removing stage four attacks was a stupid move.

I do not mind the Vampire Lords either, I just think that should have been a separate strain of vampirism not the Volkihar. And everything was done to make the game easier, they took out sun damage in the stages, the fire damage is useless, and the removed stage four attacks. Not to mention just reusing the Oblivion vampire mechanics so they didn't have to worry about players complaining about not being able to do quests since the Volkihar are supposed to be hideous monsters. So they did make things easier so people would find it more enjoyable so they would get more sales.

I'm not denying that they made the game easier by the changes they made. And everyone made points I already agree with.

But, I feel some are getting aggressive about it. Anything they find = Bethesda did us wrong, they svck, they are horrible. Them being Volkihar vampire it self is not something that make the game easier. And, they seem like hideous creatures to me....and not everything was taken away, just lessen.

This is how they choose to flesh out the clan, and they eat people on tables, have bat-faces, and are still weak to fire, just not as much.

While the changes are bad moves, they did not change everything.

People are finding that it isnt' /exactly/ how it was in books, and jumping guns into an all-out attack on how it was done.

There's a middle ground people.

[kirsty joanne hines]

Immortal Blood is fiction, because Movarth Piquine and the Cyrodiilic vampires apparently never existed.

Or its fiction because the author didn't use all facts. And if its listed as fiction in the game itself why are you so sure its not.

[Lakyn Ellery]

To everyone complaining "Why vamps aren't like in the Immortal Blood grrr":
Did you ever thought how it would mess up the game ? Dweling under ice ? Sure we can be done, but:
1. As a vampire you must have watherbrething ability.
2. Have a lair under ice far in the north... Yeah, god luck finding victims.
3. Pass throught the ice ? It would work but it gonna be glithy as hell.

I wouldn't be suprised if Movarth has made up the book himself, to prove superority of Cyrodiil strain of vampirism.

[Your Mum]

You cant prove that they are or that they aren't. Only speculation, but I would assume that they are Volkihar and that immortal blood is most likely fiction.

I think that there existence is enough to prove that the book is fiction.

[Joanne Crump]

May I ask, would you kindly stop talking about game techs and talk about the lore idea of this thread?

Not sure what you mean by this. You also say that I should not use game techs, yet you say that Skyrim is the official lore when isn't that the same thing as using the game techs?

I'm not denying that they made the game easier by the changes they made. And everyone made points I already agree with.

But, I feel some are getting aggressive about it. Anything they find = Bethesda did us wrong, they svck, they are horrible. Them being Volkihar vampire it self is not something that make the game easier. And, they seem like hideous creatures to me....and not everything was taken away, just lessen.

This is how they choose to flesh out the clan, and they eat people on tables, have bat-faces, and are still weak to fire, just not as much.

While the changes are bad moves, they did not change everything.

People are finding that it isnt' /exactly/ how it was in books, and jumping guns into an all-out attack on how it was done.

There's a middle ground people.

But they did go against the lore because these "Volkihar" have the same feeding as the Cyrodiilic vampires when they shouldn't, I will agree that Bethesda did fix the look of them by making them ugly. But they still are not how they should be.

[Poetic Vice]

I actually just read Immortal Blood and if you ask me.. Tis is truly bullcrap and completely fictional for sure.. Just made-up story..

[Dezzeh]

Oh yes, Immortal Blood is so fictional that it got the Cyrodiilic vampires right. And Movarth Piquine? He was a fictional character in the Elder Scrolls who never was a vampire hunter or later a vampire himself, because we never encounter him in Skyrim.

All sarcasm aside, face it people, Bethesda changed their own lore to accomidate the kids to make gameplay easier. By lore rights, the Volkihar should be paranoid, submerged frozen-cave dwelling nosferatu's who venture into the world above only to feed. They are no different from the vampires of Morrowind who did the same exact thing, leave their vile dens to feed and fight other clans and to collect ingredients.

Bethesda knew this would not be useful, so they ripped off Underworld, Blade, etc and added their own twist. They squat and took a massive dumb on gameplay by making it easier and less of a burden to play as a vampire solely because players kept whining about how vampirism was too hard and how people kept attacking them when in truth they could of cured themselves if they didn't like it and moved on to be a werewolf, because at least they were easier for the average joe schmoe infant to play and control. But no, Bethesda chose to remove stage 4 vampirism attacks and God knows why add blood-bottles and new feeding animations when they are practically useless!!!

Their lore is thrown out the window with the Volkihar being able to blend in society like the Cyrodiilic vampires, who I must say had potential to make an appearance in the game. Hell, Movarth showed up, didn't he? But he's just another freak like Harkon and made to be a Volkihar when he was BITTEN by a damn priest who was clearly a Cyrodiilic vampire. Or let me guess, that was a fictional story that never took place? Please, you people believed it sure enough during the time when Oblivion was very popular and making tons of sales! How many times did I hear "Oh man, Volkihar sounds awesome! They can reach out of the ice and drag people under and they freeze victims with their breath!"

But Bethesda pulled the plug and said "Lets focus on some overgrown flying lizards who belch shouts in their own weird ass language and copy and paste the vampires from Oblivion and slap on the name 'Volkihar' for the fans. Let us add Movarth Piquine, a man apparently added in a 'fictional' ingame book in the game so that he could represent a Volkihar vampire, even though he was bitten by a member of the Order".

Way to herp the derp, Bethesda, way to herp the derp.

[CRuzIta LUVz grlz]

To everyone complaining "Why vamps aren't like in the Immortal Blood grrr":
Did you ever thought how it would mess up the game ? Dweling under ice ? Sure we can be done, but:
1. As a vampire you must have watherbrething ability.
2. Have a lair under ice far in the north... Yeah, god luck finding victims.
3. Pass throught the ice ? It would work but it gonna be glithy as hell.

I wouldn't be suprised if Movarth has made up the book himself, to prove superority of Cyrodiil strain of vampirism.

1. Just add the Waterbreathing ability to Volkihar (like how they add the Night Eye ability to vampires regardless of whether or not you are Khajiit)
2. Increase the number of traveling NPCs.
3. Have ice be activated at certain points like doors to new cells are. Sure, some might complain that you can't do it everywhere, but the majority of people would be willing to accept the fact that you can only do so at designated areas due to game limitations.

[MISS KEEP UR]

Not sure what you mean by this. You also say that I should not use game techs, yet you say that Skyrim is the official lore when isn't that the same thing as using the game techs?

But they did go against the lore because these "Volkihar" have the same feeding as the Cyrodiilic vampires when they shouldn't, I will agree that Bethesda did fix the look of them by making them ugly. But they still are not how they should be.

If the book is fiction and we are just now learning the real facts on the Volkihar then how can you say that the way they feed is wrong?

[Jade Muggeridge]

Oh yes, Immortal Blood is so fictional that it got the Cyrodiilic vampires right. And Movarth Piquine? He was a fictional character in the Elder Scrolls who never was a vampire hunter or later a vampire himself, because we never encounter him in Skyrim.

All sarcasm aside, face it people, Bethesda changed their own lore to accomidate the kids to make gameplay easier. By lore rights, the Volkihar should be paranoid, submerged frozen-cave dwelling nosferatu's who venture into the world above only to feed. They are no different from the vampires of Morrowind who did the same exact thing, leave their vile dens to feed and fight other clans and to collect ingredients.

Bethesda knew this would not be useful, so they ripped off Underworld, Blade, etc and added their own twist. They squat and took a massive dumb on gameplay by making it easier and less of a burden to play as a vampire solely because players kept whining about how vampirism was too hard and how people kept attacking them when in truth they could of cured themselves if they didn't like it and moved on to be a werewolf, because at least they were easier for the average joe schmoe infant to play and control. But no, Bethesda chose to remove stage 4 vampirism attacks and God knows why add blood-bottles and new feeding animations when they are practically useless!!!

Their lore is thrown out the window with the Volkihar being able to blend in society like the Cyrodiilic vampires, who I must say had potential to make an appearance in the game. Hell, Movarth showed up, didn't he? But he's just another freak like Harkon and made to be a Volkihar when he was BITTEN by a damn priest who was clearly a Cyrodiilic vampire. Or let me guess, that was a fictional story that never took place? Please, you people believed it sure enough during the time when Oblivion was very popular and making tons of sales! How many times did I hear "Oh man, Volkihar sounds awesome! They can reach out of the ice and drag people under and they freeze victims with their breath!"

But Bethesda pulled the plug and said "Lets focus on some overgrown flying lizards who belch shouts in their own weird ass language and copy and paste the vampires from Oblivion and slap on the name 'Volkihar' for the fans. Let us add Movarth Piquine, a man apparently added in a 'fictional' ingame book in the game so that he could represent a Volkihar vampire, even though he was bitten by a member of the Order".

Way to herp the derp, Bethesda, way to herp the derp.

I think its more likely that you just really wanted it to be the way it was in the book and you are having trouble dealing with it. Because you are ignoring everything that makes any sense just so you can repeat this over and over. You have no proof that what you are saying is right. The game lists the book as fiction. Many people have explained why they believe its fiction and yet you still cant seem to understand.

[Dylan Markese]

Not sure what you mean by this. You also say that I should not use game techs, yet you say that Skyrim is the official lore when isn't that the same thing as using the game techs?

But they did go against the lore because these "Volkihar" have the same feeding as the Cyrodiilic vampires when they shouldn't, I will agree that Bethesda did fix the look of them by making them ugly. But they still are not how they should be.

It's not how it should be, but that is how it is.

They didn't go totally against the lore, nor did they go totally with it. But, that is what it is in the game now.

Making suggestions, pointing out what is wrong, is all good.

I'm just getting tired of people not seeing the middle ground.

It's not Bethesda did nothing wrong or Bethesda did everything wrong. There is a middle ground.

And the saying they made the game easier by making them Volkihar is just trying to throw another 'because they were lazy and did everything else wrong' 'because they are greedy and screw fans who like lore'.

They just trying to make their games fun, and they made a mistake.

[Arrogant SId]

Oh yes, Immortal Blood is so fictional that it got the Cyrodiilic vampires right. And Movarth Piquine? He was a fictional character in the Elder Scrolls who never was a vampire hunter or later a vampire himself, because we never encounter him in Skyrim.

All sarcasm aside, face it people, Bethesda changed their own lore to accomidate the kids to make gameplay easier. By lore rights, the Volkihar should be paranoid, submerged frozen-cave dwelling nosferatu's who venture into the world above only to feed. They are no different from the vampires of Morrowind who did the same exact thing, leave their vile dens to feed and fight other clans and to collect ingredients.

Bethesda knew this would not be useful, so they ripped off Underworld, Blade, etc and added their own twist. They squat and took a massive dumb on gameplay by making it easier and less of a burden to play as a vampire solely because players kept whining about how vampirism was too hard and how people kept attacking them when in truth they could of cured themselves if they didn't like it and moved on to be a werewolf, because at least they were easier for the average joe schmoe infant to play and control. But no, Bethesda chose to remove stage 4 vampirism attacks and God knows why add blood-bottles and new feeding animations when they are practically useless!!!

Their lore is thrown out the window with the Volkihar being able to blend in society like the Cyrodiilic vampires, who I must say had potential to make an appearance in the game. Hell, Movarth showed up, didn't he? But he's just another freak like Harkon and made to be a Volkihar when he was BITTEN by a damn priest who was clearly a Cyrodiilic vampire. Or let me guess, that was a fictional story that never took place? Please, you people believed it sure enough during the time when Oblivion was very popular and making tons of sales! How many times did I hear "Oh man, Volkihar sounds awesome! They can reach out of the ice and drag people under and they freeze victims with their breath!"

But Bethesda pulled the plug and said "Lets focus on some overgrown flying lizards who belch shouts in their own weird ass language and copy and paste the vampires from Oblivion and slap on the name 'Volkihar' for the fans. Let us add Movarth Piquine, a man apparently added in a 'fictional' ingame book in the game so that he could represent a Volkihar vampire, even though he was bitten by a member of the Order".

Way to herp the derp, Bethesda, way to herp the derp.

This all the way.

If the book is fiction and we are just now learning the real facts on the Volkihar then how can you say that the way they feed is wrong?

Because only the Cyrodiilic vampires are supposed to feed to lower their stages and get weaker, but in return be able to hide in society because they made a pact with Clavicus Vile.

[kat no x]

Not sure what you mean by this. You also say that I should not use game techs, yet you say that Skyrim is the official lore when isn't that the same thing as using the game techs?

Game Techs is how you play, and such. These should never be taken into consideration. What should be is stuff that happens in the game, such as the Main Quest, as well as 'common' stuff.. Like Destruction Magic.. How you use the magic is just game techs but in general, the ability to use fire, frost, and lightning as a magical attack is considered as lore since it is common enough.

As to stay on Vampires, from my years of experience.. The common stuff about vampires that should be lore is them being weak to fire damage and have some sort of weakness to the sun as well as being skilled in certain magics. (In all TES games where you become a vampire, you at least have some sort of weakness to fire and sun as well as having some sort of boost in magical skills).. Skyrim has a weakness to fire damage as well as an Illusion boost. It also has a weakness to the sun where you cannot regenerate, so it is sticking to the common vampire lore in my eyes.. As for feeding, yes this is common knowledge lore. Vampires always need blood and I don't think there is an official way of how they do except just drink it from a bottle/neck.

Now as for Volkihar Vampires... They have same stuff as common vampires, which all vampire clans do, but also an addition thing. To me, I believe the Vampire Lord form and abilities is what unique to the Volkihar Vampires and that is what truly makes them Volkihar.. And that is what I think is the 'official', or correct, Volkihar Vampire Lore.

As about where they live.. Common Vampires normally do live in caves but the Vampire Clans normally live in their own special areas.. Berne and Quarra of Vvardenfell lived in Dwemer ruins, which can easily be found just by looking for the towers.. The Aundae was in an Ancestral Tomb, which is more like a cave but still isn't... So why do Volkihar have to be in an icy cave? Cause of a book? No. The Volkihar Vampires could've been ANYWHERE until this add-on came out.. Now we know that their lair is really a castle isolated on an island.

[..xX Vin Xx..]

This all the way.

Because only the Cyrodiilic vampires are supposed to feed to lower their stages and get weaker, but in return be able to hide in society because they made a pact with Clavicus Vile.

Being that these vamps can feed and blend that already makes that wrong. And if you are quoting that from the book that was already classified as fiction, then its fiction.

[Lizbeth Ruiz]

I think its more likely that you just really wanted it to be the way it was in the book and you are having trouble dealing with it. Because you are ignoring everything that makes any sense just so you can repeat this over and over. You have no proof that what you are saying is right. The game itself lists the book as fiction. Many people have explained why they believe its fiction and yet you still cant seem to understand.

Then how in the blue hell is Movarth in the game? How in Oblivion they got the Cyrodiilic vampires right?

This whole "Immortal Blood is fictional" nonsense is an excuse to accept the retconned way of things. Other vampires cannot blend in by feeding on blood, yet we see the "Volkihar" doing the same thing. I am not basing everything on Immortal Blood, but also on the Manifesto, which says the feeding habits for the Cyrodiilic vampires is unique among their kind. Even in Morrowind, NPC's say that regular vampires cannot blend in, because anyone can tell a vampire just by looking at them, yet at the same time they had rumors about vampires who can blend in and work within Imperial culture and aristocracy. Then Oblivion came out and backed up this claim by two sources, Immortal Blood and Cyrodiil Vampyrum, both books not considered works of fiction until Bethesda retconned their lore and completely changed it around.

I have no problem with the Volkihar living in castles and turning into bats, but when they can blend in by feeding and acting in similar ways as previously established vampires who are clearly unique in their own right, then we have a problem.

[anna ley]

Being that these vamps can feed and blend that already makes that wrong. And if you are quoting that from the book that was already classified as fiction, then its fiction.

Where is it classified as fiction in game? You keep saying that, and I would like to see where in Skyrim, Oblivion, or any other game it classifies Immortal Blood as fiction.

[CYCO JO-NATE]

Being that these vamps can feed and blend that already makes that wrong. And if you are quoting that from the book that was already classified as fiction, then its fiction.

On Our Dual Patrons:
To Kin-father http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal, who brought forth the Bloodmatron Lamae to spite http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Arkay, we owe our existence, as do all vampires, though not all honor Him. For him we revel in the feast, and acknowledge the gift adrift in our veins. To patron http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Clavicus_Vile, beacon o'er our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power.

Lore. Is. Changed. Retconned. Butchered. Accept it.

Edit: Or let me guess, Cyrodiil Vampyrum is fiction too, huh?

[Stephanie Valentine]

Actually they don't need to feed to blend into society now Harkon made a pact wit uncle Molag, we don't know the details, maybe blend into society is one of them.

[Becky Cox]

Where is it classified as fiction in game? You keep saying that, and I would like to see where in Skyrim, Oblivion, or any other game it classifies Immortal Blood as fiction.

I believe that was answered by someone else who said it was listed in the imperial library as fiction.

[adam holden]

Actually they don't need to feed to blend into society now Harkon made a pact wit uncle Molag, we don't know the details, maybe blend into society is one of them.

People can still tell if Serana is a vampire or not, same goes for Harkon, same goes with everything else, but the gameplay contradicts the lore behind it. I doubt the Cyrodiilic vampires, who worship Bal and consider him the primary deity, would run to Clavicus if he was able to make them blend in. Otherwise they would of just said "Uncle Molag, give us the power to blend in so we can destroy all the clans from Cyrodiil."

[Andrew]

Then how in the blue hell is Movarth in the game? How in Oblivion they got the Cyrodiilic vampires right?

This whole "Immortal Blood is fictional" nonsense is an excuse to accept the retconned way of things. Other vampires cannot blend in by feeding on blood, yet we see the "Volkihar" doing the same thing. I am not basing everything on Immortal Blood, but also on the Manifesto, which says the feeding habits for the Cyrodiilic vampires is unique among their kind. Even in Morrowind, NPC's say that regular vampires cannot blend in, because anyone can tell a vampire just by looking at them, yet at the same time they had rumors about vampires who can blend in and work within Imperial culture and aristocracy. Then Oblivion came out and backed up this claim by two sources, Immortal Blood and Cyrodiil Vampyrum, both books not considered works of fiction until Bethesda retconned their lore and completely changed it around.

I have no problem with the Volkihar living in castles and turning into bats, but when they can blend in by feeding and acting in similar ways as previously established vampires who are clearly unique in their own right, then we have a problem.

I don't understand how the fact that he exists makes the book fact. And if one thing you say is right does that make everything you say fact. Maybe the only vamps he got right was the Cyrodiilic vampires because he is one.

[Sheeva]

Personally, it just seems some people don't like what was done.

And that's alright, I don't like it much myself.

But, they are getting up-in-arms about it. And, sometimes attacking Bethesda over this one thing.

When games go on for /this/ long. Some things are going to get change. Having a book in one game, can't decide how they approach it in the future. That's why retcons happens, and they sometimes have to happen. They decided they had to make it different from /one/ book they put in there in the past for gameplay reasons. But, they still kept some things true.

It just seems it has gone overboard around here lately. Like, some people are forgetting that Skyrim is a good game, from a good company, that you still have fun playing and talking about on the forums. And, because you dislike this one thing, you're going to talkdown on the company.

[teeny]

I believe that was answered by someone else who said it was listed in the imperial library as fiction.

Because someone added the book as fiction doesn't mean it is fiction within a fictional world. The facts in the book was correct, so was the character. They mistakenly placed it as fiction before Skyrim was even released. An error in the own right when Movarth appeared to be an actual character that lived in the franchise.

[FirDaus LOVe farhana]

watch beth make a future tes game and make all vampires from now on have vampire lord form...