This game is a big dissappointment : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:16 pm

since when was shinning white knights a bad thing i loved fighting for the brotherhoods cause to try salvage humanity.And i love to hate john henry eden trying to kill any mutated living cell even tho ghouls are people to just not aesthetically and will do anything to do it. but in nv there all Grey and not hugely different it's just a political war for the dam i didn't overly care who got it although i liked yes man because he had some character.BUt Gray is a dull color at the end of the day where as a white knight is majestic.

The bad thing was, you had no choice but to side with them. No helping the enclave, no helping the outcasts perhaps ousting Lyons and put the Brotherhood back onto their "true path".

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:19 pm

in all honest u should of been able to side with the enclave then kill lyon's and eat him agghhh respect your elders.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:13 am

The Brotherhood of Steel wasnt supposed to be good guys at all in the first place, they are too different, so unlike the selfish ones from the West Coast

» Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:21 am

..uh huh. That just means you're wearing blinders. In Fallout 3 you have no choice at all, it's like a Final Fantasy game. In New Vegas you have many, many choices that all actually matter.

It could be conceived as flamebait to accuse a member of wearing blinders. Generally folks just disagree. For instance I and many others did feel there were many choices to be made in FO:3 and some of them were much deeper than some seem to have noticed. Never the less, it's fine for you to think differently but assuming everyone in their right minds would see it your way is a bit unrealistic. Now mind you, there were some tougher choices along the way in New Vegas in my opinion, choices and consequences were also very much a part of FO:3.

It really should not matter to us personally that all do not see it the way we do. It's a given that different folks see the same thing differently.

There is a difference between mystery and just having information withheld. If I have an object in a box, and don't tell you what it is until you fumble around guessing for half an hour, that wasn't a mystery. That was me withholding information.

The problem with Fallout 3's main quest is that you are completely railroaded into a story, and the story is bad. A set storyline with limited or no choice is fine when the main story is good (most Final Fantasy games get away with no choice because the stories are typically good), but when the story is as weak, poorly executed and laden with as many holes as Fallout 3 it doesn't work.

I never felt railroaded in any way in FO:3. I did feel herded down a path in FO:NV that the developers seemed me to want to follow. It has opened up quite a lot since I've gotten further along in the game but still, I oft feel forced to follow a sequence. I'm not put off by that fact and still very much love FO:NV, but it is something to think about. I would actually love FO:NV to be as it is and not make me feel so confined. :shrug:

The story wasn't supposed to be a detective novel, but I think you're lying if you claim you saw everything in the main story coming (especially involving Mr. House).

:slap: Do not accuse other members of lying. It will fetch you a warn quick as a flash.

Fallout 3 didn't have any moral ambiguity, but the real problem was the game's moral compass (Enclave=bad, Brotherhood=good) didn't even work. The Enclave didn't do anything worthy of the evil tag they got, aside from Eden. So Bethesda gives you a clear good and a clear evil, and doesn't even execute them well.

I believe there was much moral ambiguity in FO:3. You don't....I liked the karma system in both..you didn't. I don't see a problem with that. I have tons of real life friends who I disagree with on moral issues so why would we all see them the same in games. Fact of life, we are different. Strawberry is my favorite fruit but you may think it your least favorite berry. Does it matter?

Too linear? Seriously? And you're using Fallout 3 as a positive example of how to avoid a linear plot?

...no comment.

Yep, some of us dare to do so.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:06 am

LoL, the comment about cliche's is laughable. FNV is built on just as many cliche's, just different ones. What a weak arguement. I'm disappointed they went with the more recent cliche where no one is bad, no one is good, everyone is in the "gray area". I'm sorry but that horse had been beat to death with a wet noodle. Just like the anti-hero craze in movies the last decade. I'm tired of it, but I guess there are people who are not. Don't fool yourself into thinking your choice in cliche isn't just that.

Honestly, I didn't find this game any less on rails than FO3. If anything I found FNV far too predicable. I mean really, the main story didn't have any twists or turns. I knew from the first hour, go to Dam for big fight. Wow, that's not a cliche? And that's what everyone did, that's all there was. I enjoyed the surprises in FO3 and was sad their wasn't any kind of mysteries or surprises in FNV. In FO3, there was the mysteies with your Dad, why he left the vault, mysteries about the main character's origin, mysteries about the vault, about the project your parents were working on etc etc. There's no mystery or surprise inf FNV. I wasn't surprised anyway. Legion is east coming west. NCR is west going east. They are going to fight. The end. It played out lamer than I thought it would.

Honestly, I don't know how you wouldn't know who was bad and who was good from the first 10 minutes in the game? Yes yes, no one was truly 100% good or 100% evil. Regardless you can't have a good story without protagonist and antagonist. Making NCR good, but weak just made it depressing. The Legion was obviously evil, slavers, murderers etc. The only upside is that they murdered murderers... pretty weak attempt at the gray area or "non cliche" as some people fool themselves into thinking. Khans; well gee they helped shoot you and burry you. Do you think they're good or bad? It's pure sillyness to call F03 cliche because you knew who was good or bad. Personally, I feel the artificial "ambiguity" of the factions just makes the story and the game weaker. But that's just my opinion.

It's not a horrible game, but I for one was expecting more. Not a smaller area, and one room locations. I suppose It was also because I really enjoyed the whole Brotherhood vs Enclave conflict and I wanted more. I know that FNV is not a sequel to F03, but I was hoping for it to be more connected. I guess I just feel that there wan't anything really epic going on in New Vegas. And sadly, every time I've tried to replay a new character I just get bored and put the game away. It was too short and I found the quests too linear.

This, I have already sold my copy, F:NV did not draw me in as other games, 75% of the locations on the map had nothing there (Even on hardcoe mode they were useless), The factions were a good idea but executed poorly, The so called choice of how it ends...? What like repeating the same quests at the end? like going to the khan camp or BoS bunker even the Gommorah quest for which ever faction you choose, I pre-ordered this game and regret it now, I hope Bethesda doesn't let obsidian input on Fallout 4, In my opinion I preferred FO3 (before everyone starts arguing, I own nearly every RPG made since the SNES) F:NV was a let down in my books, It still shocks me how 5-10 year old games can still beat down the most modern games out today

I will not be pre-ordering another Fallout game, I will wait until release then wait until a Reputable review is posted somewhere

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:13 pm

Sadly for me (but good news for you) Fallout 4 its gonna be developed by Bethesda, i hope at least this time we can choose the path instead of fighting for only one faction like FO3

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:45 pm

This, I have already sold my copy, F:NV did not draw me in as other games, 75% of the locations on the map had nothing there (Even on hardcoe mode they were useless), The factions were a good idea but executed poorly, The so called choice of how it ends...? What like repeating the same quests at the end? like going to the khan camp or BoS bunker even the Gommorah quest for which ever faction you choose, I pre-ordered this game and regret it now, I hope Bethesda doesn't let obsidian input on Fallout 4, In my opinion I preferred FO3 (before everyone starts arguing, I own nearly every RPG made since the SNES) F:NV was a let down in my books, It still shocks me how 5-10 year old games can still beat down the most modern games out today

I will not be pre-ordering another Fallout game, I will wait until release then wait until a Reputable review is posted somewhere

I agree with a lot you are saying after the part about selling the game. FNV is not the best work in the series and it isn't helped at all by the seemingly endless number of bugs, many of which should have been hotfixed as they are so terrible (e.g. gun/reload bug). For me, playing this game has become more of something to do rather than something I'm excited about. If not for some really cool stuff like ED-E, I may have shelved it a week after buying it. The guns are awesome too but I find it silly to explore the wasteland and come upon location after location that has nothing going for it. It was as if the developers were getting paid by the quantity of locations, not the quality of them. At least in FO3 if a location was a picnic table there was usually a pint of whiskey, a carton of smokes and a deathclaw to make it fun and enjoyable.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:26 pm

I dont know why there are so many people that say Fallout 3 was so much better. yeah, it was an awesome game, but imo, the story blew. there was hardly any choice until the very end of broken steel. i got so sick of being forced to help a group of power-armored tribals with backwards ideals.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:20 pm

At least in FO3 if a location was a picnic table there was usually a pint of whiskey, a carton of smokes and a deathclaw to make it fun and enjoyable.

Plus, it wouldn't be marked on your map

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:30 pm

It's actually kinda nice sometimes considering that a member hinting that something might not be right with your post can help him/her getting an official warning.

Although occasionally the members are just acting self-righteous.

This.

I agree with the OP that many of the places in the game are dead-end places. At least most of the locations in Fallout 3 had a story to them. Its not like that in New Vegas with most of the locations.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:20 pm

Yep, some of us dare to do so.

That sounds like a flamebait too, Summer.

I am not sure at what position that you are from that you feels the need to defend FO3 with such determination. I mean some of your counter point is reasonable, but you then elaborated that "NV is kinda different but more or less the same as FO3". In a sense it also seems that you are trying to suppress those who defend NV against FO3.

You have been talking a lot about personal opinion and perspective, yet it seems wrong to feel NV>FO3 from how you talk.

In fact, I feel like getting ban every time I didn't add "Both FO3 and FONV is a great game".

I know that mods can express personal opinion too, but sometimes it just feels like being suppressed when the mods give a bias opinion.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:35 pm

I dont want to sound agressive but..

WOW, people likes FO3 over NV, sometimes i feel happy, because some people hate the game at the point of says, "Oblivion with guns", and, "FO3 is too soft"

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:37 pm

Did you find House's brother's office? Dig through his computers and learn that bit of information? The place was, from a 'loot' standpoint, basically useless. From an atmosphere standpoint, it was disturbing.

That's just one, little, tiny thing.

The devs weren't filling the wasteland with loot. They were filling the wasteland with backstory and setting. You go to one of those old playgrounds and see junk loot. I go there and see the last vestiges of what must have been a thriving suburb, a place where children played, and may well have been playing when one of those bombs that got through the AMS system hit.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:11 pm

Oblivion and Fallout 3 had awful stories. The story in New Vegas is actually good. Maybe your system has just gotten so used to bad writing that a dose of good writing put you into a state of shock?

Maybe you were so used to the amazingly great writing in FO3 that when you experienced the horribly [censored] writing of New Vegas that your brain exploded and you cant distinguish good writing from clichéd stupid old west stories. FO3's story was the best, Oblivions was definitely not my favorite, that much i agree, but FO3 had lots of unexpected twists and turns in the story and side quests, New Vegas was so predictable that I stopped playing the main quest for another 3 play throughs, and if youre wondering how I racked up three play throughs in so little time is because i got so bored with the quests and map.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:40 pm

That sounds like a flamebait too, Summer.

I am not sure at what position that you are from that you feels the need to defend FO3 with such determination. I mean some of your counter point is reasonable, but you then elaborated that "NV is kinda different but more or less the same as FO3". In a sense it also seems that you are trying to suppress those who defend NV against FO3.

You have been talking a lot about personal opinion and perspective, yet it seems wrong to feel NV>FO3 from how you talk.

In fact, I feel like getting ban every time I didn't add "Both FO3 and FONV is a great game".

I know that mods can express personal opinion too, but sometimes it just feels like being suppressed when the mods give a bias opinion.

Heh, how many "in my opinion", "i believe", "i feel that" must one put on his posts in order for them to not seem absolute?
Mods are nothing but forum moderators, they are players too and they are also subject to the forum's rules. There is no reason to feel suppressed in a civil discussion.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:08 pm

That sounds like a flamebait too, Summer.

I am not sure at what position that you are from that you feels the need to defend FO3 with such determination. I mean some of your counter point is reasonable, but you then elaborated that "NV is kinda different but more or less the same as FO3". In a sense it also seems that you are trying to suppress those who defend NV against FO3.

You have been talking a lot about personal opinion and perspective, yet it seems wrong to feel NV>FO3 from how you talk.

In fact, I feel like getting ban every time I didn't add "Both FO3 and FONV is a great game".

I know that mods can express personal opinion too, but sometimes it just feels like being suppressed when the mods give a bias opinion.

I am in no way siding with anyone. And surely not saying one is better than the other. Rather, I am posting both as a moderator and a member (playing the game) and feel sure I have done nothing so say one is any better than the other game. In fact if I thought so I am perfectly free to express such. I often say what I like more in one than the other. But we all have to be careful not to insult one another on a personal basis. I feel it was pretty clear cut when I was speaking as a moderator and when I was speaking as a member with an opinion in that post. We all have a right to our subjective opinion of the game. I too am a customer.

But as a moderator, I caution folks when they step over the flame/flamebait line and that happens when someone accuses another of being dense, having blinders on, lying and other such stuff.

As far as these games go, I go back and forth as to which game I like better because quite frankly I like some things better in one and other things in the other. As of now I think I am enjoying Fallout:NV a bit more than FO:3 and I attribute that to having a nice tight story line which is well planned out. That doesn't mean I think any less of Fallout:3 however.

I do apologies if you felt I was baiting someone since in reality I am trying hard to convey a message of "game and let game" and enjoy what you do and don't feel like everyone else needs to see it the same as you do. (you being a term to indicate each individual and not you specfically)

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:38 pm

..uh huh. That just means you're wearing blinders. In Fallout 3 you have no choice at all, it's like a Final Fantasy game. In New Vegas you have many, many choices that all actually matter.

There is a difference between mystery and just having information withheld. If I have an object in a box, and don't tell you what it is until you fumble around guessing for half an hour, that wasn't a mystery. That was me withholding information.

The problem with Fallout 3's main quest is that you are completely railroaded into a story, and the story is bad. A set storyline with limited or no choice is fine when the main story is good (most Final Fantasy games get away with no choice because the stories are typically good), but when the story is as weak, poorly executed and laden with as many holes as Fallout 3 it doesn't work.

The story wasn't supposed to be a detective novel, but I think you're lying if you claim you saw everything in the main story coming (especially involving Mr. House).

Fallout 3 didn't have any moral ambiguity, but the real problem was the game's moral compass (Enclave=bad, Brotherhood=good) didn't even work. The Enclave didn't do anything worthy of the evil tag they got, aside from Eden. So Bethesda gives you a clear good and a clear evil, and doesn't even execute them well.

Too linear? Seriously? And you're using Fallout 3 as a positive example of how to avoid a linear plot?

...no comment.

There may have been "many choices" (just 4) in Fallout New Vegas, but three offered few quests and were made to seem like "bad" choices. Only the NCR gets plenty of quests (forcing you to start to side with them) and are the only ones that are portrayed as being "good guys with incompetent leadership", not an evil leadership but just an incompetent one. Caesar's Legion and Mr. House on the other hand are made to seem like an army of slavers led by a crazy wannabe Roman or some authoritarian person from back in the day.

My point is that New Vegas never fixed Fallout 3's problem with black and white. It just added in more "bad guys."

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:15 pm

Obsidian did a better job for my personal point of view. the game feels nearly like another Fallout 2, just with less Pop Culture references.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:03 pm

Obsidian did a better job for my personal point of view. the game feels nearly like another Fallout 2, just with less Pop Culture references.

Are you sure that's not because of the random Fallout 2 music tracks scattered throughout the game?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:04 pm

Obsidian did a better job for my personal point of view. the game feels nearly like another Fallout 2, just with less Pop Culture references.

Indeed but I don't know about the pop culture thing, there are still a lot of easter eggs especially with the wild wasteland trait, lots of FO2 references, I also did a quick search for a particular quest I was stuck on and to my surprise discovered lots of quest are named after songs by 50/60ties musicians for example.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:43 am

Are you sure that's not because of the random Fallout 2 music tracks scattered throughout the game?

Music off, but...... really?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:24 pm

Indeed but I don't know about the pop culture thing, there are still a lot of easter eggs especially with the wild wasteland trait, lots of FO2 references, I also did a quick search for a particular quest I was stuck on and to my surprise discovered lots of quest are named after songs by 50/60ties musicians for example.

I liked Fallout 3's references more, especially since you didn't have to take a trait to see them (yes, I know there were no traits in Fallout 3). I miss the random encounters too.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:10 pm

I think this game is better than Fallout 3, and I loved F3. I waited almost 30 hours before I finally went into the Strip. I really enjoyed the fact that you could spend A LOT of time in the desert before going there. I had a real satisfying moment when I first saw the Strip, from afar, with lights glowing. Even if things were interesting before, this game really picked up for me starting in Freeside. I love taking my time and doing all I can. Last night, I finally entered the Strip, and discovered The Gomorrah. I guess, for me, the story and the immersion is bigger than in Fallout 3, and I didn't think that could happen. I sincerly hope they fix the corrupt save bugs so I can continue without fear my character's progression to the end. And, for the first time, I will begin a new game, different allegiance, after I finish the main story with this character. Good times. And now, entering the Tops!

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:24 am

Indeed but I don't know about the pop culture thing, there are still a lot of easter eggs especially with the wild wasteland trait, lots of FO2 references, I also did a quick search for a particular quest I was stuck on and to my surprise discovered lots of quest are named after songs by 50/60ties musicians for example.

When you said Fallout 2 references you say

-The crashed vertibird that the old lady in Novac mention
-Marcus
-Arcade Gannon, ex- member of the Enclave

» Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:12 am

Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas, which is better for you? (quest enabled)
Since the forum seems to be going in every direction instead of a problem solving route, let's gather together and create our very own forum quest. The quest's objectives are simple. Compare and contrast the game. We can even go back to 4th grade and use a Venn diagram. Once it's complete it will become obvious which is better and this issue will never again come up :celebration: Oh, and as your reward you'll receive 150 bottlecaps delivered by the Mojave Expresse and gamesas forum fame. :rolleyes:

(notes)
But in my opinion, the vast variety of people who were disappointed with Fallout New Vegas because they were under the impression it was a Fallout 3 add on instead of it's own game :shocking: .