but see you are already assuming that guns will make such a huge change to gameplay in your mind bethesda added something new and it failed. It could be that guns do only slightly more damage than arrows and have a slow reload time, and really how would guns not fit in with the dwemer?

Because a lot of them are pretentious and hostile, instead of arguing their point they say "Get over it", "Make your own game"


I just don't think a high fantasy LOTR inspired game needs steampunk weaponry.

I agree with this completely, well said.

Wiat, wait, wait... let me get something straight... So not having 100 skills and 200 attributes makes the game dumbed down? Huh? Some skills were just useless. Like Athletics and Acrobatics, and dont tell me they offered depth to your character. Because they didnt. Neither did Attributes.
"M'aiq is very practical. He has no need for mysticism"
"It does not matter to M'aiq how strong or smart one is. It only matters what one can do."

Well, I can say I have been a victim to this countless times. Never hostile. Never pretentious. I just enjoy the game. Guess what. I have no clue what a true RPG is about. Forget the fact that I enjoyed games like Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and the like. Yet, I was relentlessly attacked. Called a sheep. There were quite a few posters in all three of these official threads calling people who like Skyrim...sheep. We will buy anything Bethesda puts out.

So if I answer and question "I enjoy Skyrim"...and then get attacked (along with other people...I stopped answering those threads)...I would hardly call that hostile.

You also have you look at the nature of those hate threads....they are called hate threds for a reason. I avoid them, but when some body types stuff like:

"This game svck soo bad I hope todd burns in hell for this i HOPE HE DIES HAHAHA I cann make a better game."

You know I'm not exaggerating when I put this down....sometimes people don't think when they type.

Sarcasm can be misconstrued as hostility and your post here contains a lot of it.

And just because you enjoy the game doesn't mean people can't discuss why they don't.

Yes, they did add depth to characters. Acrobatics in a very tangible way. Attributes on a fundamental, differential level. Even allowed for builds that are no longer in vanilla Skyrim.

I think everyone should read through Rebus Gent's post.

Why? I read the OPs comments throughout the thread and besides, just because he started the thread doesn't give his comments extra merit

Once your Acrobatics was high enough, you could attack when jumping.

More than once while sneaking around in Aylied ruins, I'd climb over a railing and jump down onto a bandit, attacking as I landed on them. One time, I badly misjudged the distance and never landed near the bandit. I was laughing so hard while being attacked I almost died.

Couldn't do that without that skill.

Uldred

Why? I've listed numerous things they've gutted. Just because your bent out of shape because I don't put Skyrim into a positive light doesn't discredit my concerns.

That's a true story there bud. No sarcasm. Hmmm. Happened not to long ago. Believe what you want. And just to prove a point, just because I don't like to be called a BSer...when I'm NOT, I'm gonna quote a guy who's just a few pages back. I'm not going to go through all the threads again, or the countless made daily....Sarcasm...

nevermind

His comments should be given no merit at all. They're all generic complaints with no real substance. He's been bumping his own thread with them whenever things slow down. If it wasn't obvious he was a troll before, it is now.

but Dwemer machinery and cannons exist in ES so I say guns would fit in

I think the thread has remained rather civil despite that

Well, I would say you are in the minority, and there is no evidence of cannons

there was one in redguard

Generic complaints?

Ah, I thought you meant hand cannons,

That doesn't really give evidence they could create muskets, they had cannons in the middle ages and no guns until much later.

Settle down, I'm a sophisticated troll. I f****** hate Skyrim.
okay that's a lie, but wouldn't that have been brilliant?
I gotta say, your last paragraph gave me new perspective though, and I'm starting to see where you are coming from (not that you care what I think)

I love this game, but I went in with no expectations at all, having never played Elder Scrolls. Maybe I'm excited because I essentially just lost my RPG virginity, so EVERYTHING is fresh, whereas a seasoned ES player would likely be more focused on changes and improvement.

look I didn't mean to push your buttons (ok, I probably did) but my main goal in this thread was to increase Skyrim appreciation and decrease Skyrim cynicism. Why? because this game fills me with immense joy and I want other people to share that experience. But minds have been made, and there is little one can do to sway opinions. To each his own, as they say. Look for me, I'll be the guy playing Skyrim with a giant smile on his face.

p.s. I quoted your words in red and mine in green because green is the color of trees and valleys and life and red is the color of Satan and fire and black-widow marks and blood and Republicans.
Immature? absolutely.
Satisfying? you bet.
Necessary? no... but Important..???

p.s.s. my favorite parts of Skyrim are
a. collecting items
b. exploring
c. talking to civilians
I'm telling you this so as to not be accused of "liking Skyrim because of its action/adventure elements"

I realise you want magic skills and perks that aren't grounded in reality, less weapons to use, no actual sense in weapon representation in the game, more graphics, more player skill, less character skill, and of course cheesy auto heal, so let's not get into that.

What I just want to say here is that Morrowind warriors had high strength because it helped with damage, high agility because it provided both dodge bonus and chance to hit bonus, and obviously endurance for the health. How is that in any way "out-of-character"? How is it more out of character than Skyrim wizards and Skyrim having almost the same physical capabilities and thieves having +100 carrying capacity from Extra Pockets perk? Yes, +100. That's 20 levels worth of stamina boosts in one go. It's so crazy my non-thief characters get it, just because they can.

Skyrim mages really only need magicka and health, and since magicka regen is bunk and -100% spell cost is possible, the only thing they really need is health. This means 1:1 is a perfectly reasonable health to magicka ration and a power gamer would go all health. Which is far more health than what a warrior has.

How come you think that's reasonable, plausible, realistic, sensible, or conductive to any level of role-play or immersion? And mind you, we're a month after release and at patch 1.3 already. If this wasn't how gamesas wanted things to be then why haven't they fixed it? Why did they release the game this way?

What you're suggesting is that to you, it makes more sense that actual character strength has nothing to do with melee damage, while some impossible to explain perk has everything to do with melee damage. I'm trying to wrap my brain around that but I simply can't. To me it's just not very immersive that strength-based actions are no longer based on strength but rather on some perk that you either have or don't have.

Another thing is that when you or other people talk about specialization, I really don't get what you mean. What specialization? You can make a sword'n board warrior with maxed archery, maxed illusion, maxed smithing, solid alchemy, all the enchanting you need, and capped armor and magic resistance. You actually only need 79 perks for that, less if you abuse reduced illusion spell cost enchantments, and less still if you stick with Elven armor and don't waste perks in adv. armors, glass, and dragon.

Would you call said character specialized in anything in particular? No, the build doesn't quite take every perk in any skill but then why would you ever do that? Doing so would be throwing away perks, which is like not power-gaming in former TES games. That is to say, if you're suggesting I should waste perks to RP then you're also admitting implicitly that you could RP just as well in previous games.

"The people who are defending this game would still do so even if every RPG feature were removed, because they like the action-adventure feel it has and don't care, at all, about what TES once stood for. They're Bethbots, as someone so eloquently put it, and devote all their love to anything and everything Bethesda releases."

Page 4 Post #77

As you can see...If you like the game...weather you defend Skyrim changes... Hostile or not, you're just a bethbot AKA a sheep... That was my original point to my post. I can careless where the conversation goes, but my story was not sacastic in the slightest! That crap happened to me for he first to weeks Skyrim came out...I just gave up. I just came here to say that opinions are opinions. Why attack each other when they are just that...opinions? And why attack someone for enjoying Skyrim?

Ships in Redguard did have cannons. In Infernal City, cannons are mentioned to be on Garbage Scows (boats). It doesn't however state that these "cannons" use gunpowder, or shoot conventional projectiles even. For all we know they shoot fire balls and Electric. We do know from lore that bringing mages on ships for battle was seen as an unwritten 'No No' of maritime combat, at least off the Coasts of Cyrodiil.

Considering crossbows, throwing daggers, darts, throwing stars have all be removed from the series to focus on the bow (Oblivion), do we really want them to add a gun of some type, lore approved or not, especially if that would mean removing bows?

Unless the Dwemer make a huge return in a upcoming game, leave guns in TES past. Should there be a quest to retrieve non-functioning gun from some ruin, I don't have much of an issue with that. However, that will open the door for more requests for it, since there's a model of it in the game.

Uldred

I Skyrim... Oops wrong thread on!