Your making generalisations that everyone who has issues with Skyrim makes generalisations about people who don't

Bethesda has probably gained 1000 new fans for every old fan that they have alienated with the "streamlining" of the series. So, from a financial perspective, it stands to reason that the streamlining will continue.

Those of us who miss the days of Daggerfall and Morrowind will just have to move on.

I enjoy Skyrim. I am a fan of the series.

That said, I would like to offer constructive advice for Bethesda in case they are planning TES 6.

1. Please make TES 6. You are the one studio that has the capability to make magic in RPG. Being able to interact/see/pickup any item is epic and done so much better than any RPG on the market.

2. The series is taking a turn to more Action-Adventure than RPG.
a: An NPC should not offer training with the bow if we just ruined his chance at romance with another NPC.
b. Skills that auto level seems intuitive, but it is broken.
-Speech should not increase with normal buying and selling.
-If you keep this method of leveling, perhaps only allow skills used in combat to level and the others require conscious level points spent to increase the skill. Otherwise enchanting/smithing etc will be misused.
-Bring back the core attributes; level these by what the player does but limit total attribute raised per level.
-- want to raise intelligence? read more books
-- want to raise strength? chop more wood. do logging
-- want to raise endurance? swim more
-- want to raise speed? sprint more
etc

I hate the financial perspective. I hate the fact that "amateur" (from "Amas", "for the love of") is an antonym to proffessional. Money should be a secondary motivator, and bizarely, for struggling college students who start their own game companies, this seems to be mostly true, but for mind-bogglingly rich corporations, all they want is to maximise their profits at any cost, even though they'll have more money than they need. And unfortunately, the general public seems to be scarcely interested in quality. They want something they are familiar with, that doesn't challenge them, or fill their heads with complex thoughts, they just want something where they can switch off and mash buttons. It's the same reason "The Big Bang Theory" and "Two and a half men" are by far the most popular sitcoms on TV, while things like "Community", "Arrested Development" and "Flight of the Conchords" remain cult shows.

Completely agree

The stats argument is highly flawed, as it doesnt take in to account that (imms) in Oblivion you could completely ignore most of the skills if you simply increased the corresponding stat instead therby bypassing the need to increase skills in many cases. It devalued the skill based nature of the system, which I believe is one of the prime reasons they were scrapped entirely for Skyrim to focus on "skilling up" instead.

In my view thats the core "issue" that some of these die hard RPG players are overlooking or ignoring. The old STR/DEX etc system was flawed, and derivative of ever other RPG since D&D using the same statistics system. It wasnt "unique" to TES and never was, and it never was a "cornerstone" either. By shifting focus away from stat based spreadsheet character creation and advancement to a highly focused learn to level system it sets TES apart and makes it a unique signature feature and a TRUE cornerstone of the game thusfar.

As an pen and paper RPG game player who has played countless different systems of stats tracking and leveling, and RPG computer gamer of the same experience I can say that its this very feature that makes me come back to TES while other so called "popular" systems like WoW I simply wont play again precisely because the former is unique while the latter is stale and derivative.

Huh? I'm not talking about issues with Skyrim. I'm talking about the community that seems to attack each other like it's the last piece of food on the planet. What's funny is if you like Skyrim it's either :

A) Sheep//Bethbot
B.) You don't like true RPGs
C) Morrowinds better

or the other way around

A) Make your own game
B.) Stop playing then
C) Go back to playing Morrowind.

You see it in the threads everyday. All day... locked threads constant... In short? Why can't we all just along?

This phenomenon goes far beyond video games. Film, television, music, literature... "nothing compares to the original...."
It must be a case of nostalgia distorting reality. we see it happen with music artists all the time. People become attached to an on-the-rise music group, but when the group explodes in popularity, they bail and become bitter toward the band and its fans, and often it isn't because the band sold out or changed for the worse, but because now the band is adored by millions and the original fan feels sort of betrayed (likely in the subconscious).

having said that, a lot of your complaints are quite valid and it would be great if Elder Scrolls VI incorporates them.
lastly, http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7290527/one-night-skyrim-makes-strong-man-crumble from Bill Simmons website Grantland.
good night, Dragonborns.

Consider me on board with adding (primitive) guns if only because I think a TES game with a 16th century vibe would be neat. Though something like that could also be a new IP. I'm just saying that "open world sandbox games" don't need to be post-apocalyptic or medieval. Though if it were TES it might be a nice backdrop to finally show Akavir. I think they probably will show the continent, someday. (I'm not saying that is good or bad)

The thing is, I can see why they'd stay away from guns because considering the accessibility they tout they wouldn't want players to pick up a gun and be pissed when they can only shoot it once. Any guns in TES should be the muzzle-loading variety that you might open a fight with, but not a main weapon. You could still make them interesting though with their own set of perks and abilities. Sadly, what I'm envisioning is probably "too complex".


I want to say that I love Skyrim. It is a great game, but it could be better. I never played Morrowind or Daggerfall, I played other old RPG's that were somewhat similar. I still do to this day. I plan to pick up Morrowind sometime too. Anyway, let me get to the point.

Skyrim did improve on things from Oblivion. The voice acting is better, the world looks prettier, the dungeons are each unique, the people and items are more detailed, the animations are better, the combat is better, and the skill system is better.

In Oblivion blade and blunt were basically the same thing. They got the same perks at the skill benchmarks and functioned exactly the same in gameplay. In Skyrim though within one-handed and two-handed maces, axes, and swords are actually different from one another. Not in huge ways, but they're still way different than they were in Oblivion. Swords can get more critical hits, maces can ignore armor, and axes can inflict damage over time. That's a good start and I would love to see this concept developed further in the next TES game.

Really, the skills from Oblivion weren't removed for the most part. Athletics and acrobatics are gone, but most everything else is still there, only now they are represented by separate "perk trees" within overarching skills. There is so much more they could do with this concept so I hope they continue it and add more depth to it.

Magic lost a lot of spells which is a bad thing, but the magic skills themselves now do a lot of interesting things. The idea of double casting is neat. I don't know that we need the ability to make custom spells, just having spells scale-some with increased skill would be nice as well as more diversity in the spells.

What happened to water walking? Why take that out? Why not let us use the concept for "stoneskin" to enchant items to directly increase our armor rating?

I like that you can meet many followers and order them to do things. I like that you can befriend people and gain access to certain items. I like the randomly generated quests. Now I just want them to cut down on the level-scaling in both encounters and loot. More sensible loot would be nice.

I was hoping they'd do away with the "tiers" like Oblivion had. For example I don't think you should ever be able to find much 'Dwarven' stuff for sale as if my lore is right selling it is pretty much illegal and even acquiring Dwemer relics is hard. It would be neat if say you could only find the occasional weapon or armor available in Stormcloak controlled cities or from criminal venders. Even then most Dwarven stuff you'd find for sale would be scrap metal, necessitating that you level smithing yourself to be able to forge it into proper weapons and armor.

Same again with glass, ebony, dragon, and daedric.

With enough variety in furs, leathers, iron, and steel armors you wouldn't need "armor tiers" exactly.

I really hope they'll find some kind of common ground between "Directions" and "Quest arrows". All they really need to do is add dialogue and let me turn off the arrows in the options menu. That's it. Is it so hard for a note to mention a specific region I can see on the map? Is it so much to ask that a quest giver at least give me a general direction and/or landmark?

I've been trying to play Skyrim without the quest arrows but it is impossible if I want to ever complete anything. Even if I clear every dungeon I come across if a quest later tells me to go there the dungeon will often reset so my previous visit didn't accomplish much.

...and honestly, doesn't the quest arrow kind of contrast with the exploration aspect? Fast travel I can live with, because I just don't need to use it and it can save tedium, but there must be a way to tone down the quest arrows.

The Elder Scrolls games have only gotten better as the series continues... =)

although i do enjoy skyrim for what it is i know in future i'm going to have to look elswhere if i wan't to play a deep compelling rpg.

Gotten better? That's subjective. Many people disagree.

Hehe, funny style, Tim. Though I don't really mind having the color of satan, fire, blood, or various antiquated symbols of being an outcast, I do dislike having the color of my native commies, socialists, and assorted left-wing hokerrs. Not that left wing is inherently bad but left wing nutjob is. And they're red where I live, so yeah, you've given me the color of US repubs and Danish left wing idiots.

Anyway, I do personally prefer green, like the serene and pure forest, the color of life and hope... It's such a soothing color. Even so, I'm not sure the moderators are going to enjoy their forum turning into a neon color show, so I'll do the rest in default color.

All the same, I did not say what you suggested I did. I didn't suggest it, I didn't insinuate it, I didn't imply it, and I certainly would like you to acknowledge as much. I'm not saying it is a game breaker that I can't melt snow. As terrible as it is, it's not even a game breaker that nobody can tell I'm the [censored] hero who [ahem, spoiler-free forum]. I'm simply saying those are issues that should perhaps be considered before we declare the game perfect.

You did round off your last post comparing me with what would seem to be your formerly alcoholic dad. How did you think I'd respond? With a bucket of flowers and a box of chocolate? Punch a bear on the nose, it responds by mauling your face off. Call me an deluded addict, I take offense. And in all fairness, it is rather... insult-inviting to suggest that all those who write long and detailed posts accounting for why they're disappointed with Skyrim are really just angry because gamesas isn't just "their game dev" anymore. If you've spent hours detailing the aspects that disappoint you, it's just not very respectful when someone brushes it all aside with such a flimsy accusation.

That's the thing, I AM appreciating this game for what it is worth. I'm coldly and rationally evaluating every nut and bolt, based on my personal RPG preferences. What is wrong with that? Why shouldn't I strive to be as logical and rational as possible?

And am I in butt agony? Perhaps. All the epic RPGs these days turn out to really just be more twitchy action adventure stuff, and as much as I like beheading enemies and whatnot, I miss proper RPGs.

That's my point exactly. Many games don't accurately represent the danger of steep mountain sides, and that's fair enough. They're just games, after all. But Skyrim goes a step further and mocks the crap out of it, and I honestly did expect a AAA title to do better than that. I don't think that's being unreasonable or unrealistic on my part, even if the RPG elements I'd like to see are probably gone for good.

Probably true. And it really is awesome the first time. You get a huuuuge world where you can move around as you want, talk to people, do nothing if that's your fancy, do pretty much what you want when you want to. Awesome is an understatement, really. This happened to me some ten years ago with Morrowind and most of the things it did "bad" were not things that bothered me anyway. I'm fond of reading so text-only dialogue was fine. I don't care much for graphics so blocky faces and generally less than stellar graphics were okay. I had played a fair bit of Baldur's Gate and Diablo so I was familiar with the concept of a chance to hit.

Ten years later and here we are, with Skyrim. The sandbox bit is improved somewhat from former games. Skyrim is definitely more interesting to travel around than Cyrodiil, where TES4 took place. It's more scenic, everything looks better, and dragons are cool as hell. Giants too, really. With no point of reference, Skyrim is of course going to feel fabulous. It's quite impossible to describe how cool it is to step into a world like that, and I can only imagine how overwhelming it would've been if I had done this ten years ago. The point is, I know how awesome the feeling is. I've been there.

Oh, but I do think most of us "complainers" are appreciating Skyrim. It's a good game by pretty much any standard other than that of a hardened RPG gamer, and even an RPG fan will have a hard time outright hating the game. It's just that while you're seeing this whole sandbox concept for the first time, we've seen it before and are seeing changes that make the choices made increasingly less significant or which make it harder for us to really immerse into this game.

I consider myself a fan of RPGs, meaning I like to enter into a world with some character and then have that character respond to the world based on the personality that I've imagined him to have. For that to work, you need immersion and you need choices. If you don't feel "svcked into" the world then you'll end up playing some action game with much less connection to your character. If you don't get choices then you'll never have the chance to explore where your character's personality will take him. You'll probably go through "the" advanture all the same but you'll never get to see "your character's" adventure from the perspective of your character.

It's a good game, absolutely. Otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about it, would we? But even a good game can be a disappointing RPG experience. In Skyrim's case it disappoints, not just because the watered out experience it delivers but also because of the potential it simply didn't fulfill.