Well ya see op trolly pants, the point is Beth probably won't fix XY or Z. So the answer to such questions will invariably be "mods will fix it" or "There is a mod to fix it".

Ive heard this used for game mechanics more than anything, like the magic system. Beth would not agree there is anything wrong with it, but when asked if beth will fix it, the only answer can be "No, but there are mods to fix it".

In real life is always good to point out the mistakes and the right things that someone else has done. I for one, I want to know exactly what the default work was and what a modder is trying to fix. When I read a statement, "I'm fixing this or that", I have no problem of hearing this. If someone takes this personal then that's another matter.

Same here.

To the OP i think they're just stating their friendly opinion without trying to seem better then anybody as well as letting people know that there are alternatives. If their voices get loud enough and with plenty of customer mass mods will eventually end up on consoles or get there a whole lot faster.

Bethesda designed the game to be modded, expected it to be modded, released the Creation Kit so that it could be. The first time they did that, with Morrowind, it was taking a chance. It proved to extend the life of the game, and advertise it, much better than paid advertisemants could. Don't think Bethesda minds us taking them up on it.

Don't be a svck-up. I've never heard anyone claim that their horse re-tex took more work than TES V, even those annoyingly industrious Germans responsible for Nehrim.

All developers without exception are overworked and overwhelmed (except CoD developers, of course).

They have neither the time nor the creative freedom to do what modders can do, oftentimes. Their energies are taken up by the herculean task of getting a game out on time, one that conforms to the vision and the marketing. And that means, at the end of the day, modders are going to do some things better. Hell, our modders taught Bethesda how to handle some of their own code, and it got put in a patch. Where do you think developers learn their stuff, after all? Where did Counterstrike come from?

And it's just a game. Even if it's one of my favorites, I don't feel bad about pointing out stupid design decisions when I see them. I paid them, didn't I?

You are correct.

Those statements that are bolded are all incorrect, and identified as such in other posts. Especially the last one, with the reliance the modders apparently have on Bethesda. The modding community was active from the word go - there were many tweaks made to the game through mods that modders didn't use the creation kit to create, as it hadn't been released.

Modders do create stuff from scratch, and mods do fix issues with the game, and improve upon other areas. That is demeaning modders because he is not offering them the full respect that they deserve for the work that they do, implying that modders feed off Bethesda and Bethesda don't get anything in return. Mods provide a framework which tells Bethesda what the community thinks Bethesda slipped up on, and shows Bethesda how the community thinks it can be done better. The two groups can't have a much more symbiotic relationship than that.

In other words, no mods don't fix things short term for console players. But yes, it has been proven that they fix things in the long term.

True words, stormbird.
OP, you need to get some experience with some other modding-friendly games. The only thing modders can't create from scratch is the stuff Bethesda doesn't let them create, because of proprietary software and engine limitations. See the Half-Life/Source modding scene to see what's possible when an engine is really laid bare.

Edit: I don't really fault Bethesda for what they chose to give us. It is very generous, even if it would have been nice to see some love for all the animation-craving Oblivion players.

This is my first Bethesda game on a console because my computer is too old and slow now. I can honestly say I don't feel that Skyrim needs any mods to be fun. When I finally do get a newer PC, hopefully this year, I will certainly try out and have fun with the mods but I've had a ton of fun with Skyrim with 3 different characters so far without a single mod.

I do very much appreciate what all the modders do though because it does add a lot of extra life to the game once I'm bored with the vanilla version. There were some really awesome mods for Oblivion and the Fallout games that I had a blast with.

Mods should not be the answer to fix certain things, I agree with that.

Mods are there for you to change the game and make it what you want it to be.

I'm just starting to toy with Blender. Three days ago I couldn't tell you the difference between Mesh and Verts. Still can't, but I tell you what. I have grown to respect the devs far more than I already did. It's taking me 2 days to make a wine glass. I have a long way to go before I can create weapons, armor and a home. I can't imagine the time it it takes to create a huge world like these games have. Even with a team of 100, that can make a wine glass in 5 min, you can't do everything for everyone. That's where the public comes in. They give us the CK to do this with.

Making the move to PC is extremely interesting for me. The CK is a great tool, but there is only so much you can do with that. If you want to create totally unique weapons, armor, NPCs and what ever, you need to create them in software like Blender. Besides it is free compared to the thousands you could spend for a program of that caliber.


Having said that, I can respect the moddrers that create all this new stuff as well.

mods will fix it because historically Beth doesn’t
Moders can do what Beth can’t, they allow you to make the game exactly what you want it to be. My friend has a completely different mod set up from me. There is no way Beth could make a single fixed version that would satisfy both of us, but two different modders made changes as if to our specifications
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Console users get DLCs 30 days in advance I haven’t seen a single xbox user being apologetic about it so there is no reason for me to be about mods.

I don’t understand this attack, and this is not the first time someone started this discussion and it had the same tone and words and it is silly. Mods are the backbone of TES, should we avoid that fact because they are not available to 30% of people on the forum? Seems silly.

What some people fail to understand is that PC users often worship modders because it is like having a discussion with a guy that is making a video game for you on regular basis. They often take your ideas and include them in their mods and how can you not admire a guy/gal that is putting in a lot of hours working to make your game better. So yeah we sometimes become fanbois, but for good reason. Thus we are very verbal about mods that fixed issues for us or mods that injected a lot of content into our game. It is not because we are trying to piss off console users, but because we are supporting mod makers who have become like close friends that never fail to deliver.

this is the only current alternative, until Bethesda push out patches fix bugs aggressively/regurlar, good luck with your gaming.

This game's just fine without mods, but mods add some extra features that can enhance people's experiences while playing, or they tweak aspects of balance and/or design that is more to the liking of particular players. Mods can also break things horribly and not everyone has the time or the inclination to sort out what mods would work for them and what mods wouldn't.

Play with mods, play without mods, it's all down to personal taste.

Mods = better graphics, better audio, improved combat, realism/immersion, added content...

It's safe to say that ANYONE who "hates mods" is nothing more than a jealous console player. I'm not trolling, it just had to be said.

Xbox/PS3 players: you jelly dog?

Yeah, honestly it has to be said.


I can understand not wanting to deal with the potential hassle and technical hazards of mods, but to outright prefer the game without them at all... you are either subconsciously a jealous console player or else some sort of primordial creature of pure boring dullness. A poor-taste atronarch as of yet unknown to science.

I appreciate both.

If it wasn't for Beth, and the countless dollars of gamers, the mods wouldn't be able to give me a prettier Whiterun to get blind drunk in and a battle drum to bash Ulfrid, patron of yadda yadda with...

In my opinion, Skyrim is boring and shallow without mods. With mods, it's still shallow, but just a little bit less boring.

For me, I cannot remember the last time that I did not mod a PC game.

Since 1998, I've modded the living hell out of Falcon 4.0, The Total War series, Silent Hunter III, IV and V, Call of Duty 1 and 2, Morrowind, Oblivion... and dozens of other titles. All because I wanted to tailor the game to my personal satisfaction.

The times that either another modder or myself has ever "fixed" anything is when the developers of that particular title ceased to support the game and left a feature in a broken or partially working state. That's the only "fixing" that I can think of.... otherwise, to me, it's just altering the game to suit your personal tastes.

Played the game without mods other than texture packs for about 120 hours and I was content with it, but once I got my hands on some balancing mods and played with them I realized how much better the game can be!

So yes, the game without mods is far worse than a modded game.

I agree too. The "vanilla" game is far from being bad. Mods should be only for us to "customize" the game not to fix it. Bethesda will fix what's wrong with it eventually. I trust them on that. And if they don't, well, nobody's perfect, are they?

Pretty much this. Sorry, I can't play vanilla with that awful UI and really shouldn't have to. But because Bethesda won't fix it, I turned to SkyUI and found my salvation. So yeah, mods fixed a previously broken game. And oh look, I didn't even blame consoles for causing the UI disaster in the first place.

Agree with blade watcher, starX and dudeski

And here is the proof if you needed it at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGIgXeGC6Dg
When the team finished Skyrim, they had a week free time, during which they could create stuff to put in Skyrim.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3251

You'll notice that that mod is very similar to a feature a dev thought up an implemented. The modder did it independently of the Developer.

Mods are vital for elderscrolls. Imagine how cool that dev would think it is, to find that that mod is so popular.

It does, however, mean that that feature HAS to be released for free for the consoles - as you pointed out, it will be very unfair for that feature to be released on PC freely (via mods) and require a cost on console.

okay you guys are taking what i said completely out of context. I did not say mods/modders were bad, I did not say that the game was not intended to be modded, i did not say most of the thingts you guys are accuseing me of

If so, I suppose you should have chosen your words more carefully or left it alone.