Religious Wars are a common thing in our history, there still going on to this day. The Stormcloaks could have teamed up with the Empire, then go after them, sure. But why would they? Nords followed the Empire into death to defeat the Thalmor and instead turned around and signed on the dotted line, calling it a peace treaty.

Any Emperor should have know that signing such a document would cause strife within the kingdom, especially with the Nords since most revere Talos not just as a god but as a hero. I doubt the Empire was suffering in terms of needing people to fight the war with the The Thalmor, I believe what they lacked was military tactics.

The truth of the matter is the Emperor was hoping the treaty would solve all the problems and make them go away. But what the Emperor did was play right into the Thalmor's hand because now the Empire is far worse off then it has been in a long time.

I believe in peace too. But the Empire cares more for power then peace. Your tortured, jailed and even dragged off to die without a fair trial. Then when your asking the same people who stood up to the Thalmor, to go along with ridiculous new rules, that is not peace.

The Empire wields fear like a hammer to keep their subjects inline, some people choose to get hit and other choose to duck.

Ulfric called me sister and promoted me every time with a kindness and personal attention to my progression through his ranks. I was recognized as a competant soldier on the other side, nothing of the togetherness and family allegience that has bound Nords to eachother in battle and made them the warring choice of the Imperial army for centuries.

Ulfric argued against war on Whiterun and had a real problem with having Nords killing Nords. The Empire was sure to reward me for killing the infidels and paid no attention to the loss of men who were not their own.

Ulfric is a showman, a charismatic and energetic leader with a consuming drive to have what he has promised his people. He's pulling out no stops, as a warrior, as a leader and as a Nord "politician." Swords of ancient leaders, crowns of ancient leaders, showing his personal prowess, showing his military prowess. Showing kindness and sparing the lives of the former leaders who have been unseated and still also showing no quarter to his enemies. He understands the importance of a good song as a means of communicating across his country and he understands the meaning of having the Dragonborn stand at his side in support of his leadership. He's campaigning and doing a damn fine job of it.

Some politically correct mush-mouthed leader without aspiration would be no better than the mush-mouthed leaders without aspiration already all over the Empire, including 90% of Skyrim.

I didn't hear Ulfric say that he's a selfish mindless baboon seeking only personal power and fame, as the Imperials wanted me to believe.

I heard him say he wanted the true sons and daughters of Skyrim to rule their own destinies and to kick the Empire and the Thalmor out of Skyrim because they represented weakness and godlessness in the face of unjust law and a [censored] of Skyrim's natural resources that are, in part, going to fund her enemies.

Guess what he gave me when we were all done? The Empire was being invited to leave and I was asked to kill them as I found them still skulking around in my country. He made sure true Nords were in every seat and he demanded a moot knowing his campaign had been a successful one and that he will soon be the High King. He knows this is going to be hard and is already thinking ahead and planning for it.

Ulfric is just exactly the guy he said he was and all the rest is propaganda or the skewed subjective views of the supersticious small minds of Skyrim.

Eh, Stormcloak sounds cool. It sounds better than "The Rebel Alliance" or whatever people were calling it before they knew what it was about.

true that.

Now, the issue at hand...

1) the empire lost the great war. period. Their legions were decimated, their cities sacked, thousands of civilians killed, their lands ravaged. They defeated the Thalmor force in Cyrodill, but it's relatively clear the Thalmor had more, and the legions were nowhere near fighting strength. Most importantly, the Thalmor know this, having fought on Imperial territory, while the Empire has no intelligence on Thalmor reserves, troop movements, supplies, etc. Even if the Thalmor don't have the strength to keep fighting, there's no way for the Empire to know this, and if it turns out the Thalmor have significant reserves, then the Empire would make a grave mistake if they continued fighting. The Thalmor hold every military advantage against the Empire. They have intelligence, reserves, and superb counterintelligence, while the empire is exhausted, ravaged, and war-weary. They have no choice but to call for a ceasefire. Stop accusing the Empire of bending over backwards as if they had a choice. The choice was surrender or EVERYONE suffers more.

2) stop treating the WGC like it's permanent. It's not. No Imperial claims it is. Every Stormcloak sympathizer is pissed because he can't worship Talos for a generation. svck it up. Be patient, and in time you'll be free to worship Talos again. The next war starts soon, and it WILL be an all or nothing affair.

3) we now know quite a bit about the Thalmor. We know about the Pogroms, we know their intelligence (spy network) is superior, and we know they ruthlessly hunt Talos worship. We know they're immensely arrogant, we know they have powerful mages, and, most importantly, we know they're coming this time. All of this can be used to OUR advantage against them.

LMAO that was my first thought and then I remembered I was here to read a post!

I think they are pro and cons for both sides. However, for some reason, I still feel drawn towards the Stormcloaks. I guess because they represent resistance to a system that isn't working and that is licking the boots of the Aldmeri Dominion and I seriously hate the Aldmeri stuck up idiots! They have NO right to come into Tamriel and dictate how things are done! If I want to worship Talos, I will worship Talos... Who are they to tell me not to?

I tried to kill the 3 Thalmor, who wander around the Jarl's throne room in Markarth yesterday, but the guards didn't offer any leniency for my crime, they were out for my blood. So, I just reloaded the game... one day... one day their heads will roll! LOL




Well said! That's exactly how I see him and I guess that's the reason, why I will always be drawn towards the Stormcloaks!

gotta admit, it never ceases to amaze me how far we will debate over a game.

damn Bretons.

I think at that point, it's been only a year since Ulfric escaped Thalmor custody. In addition the empire caved to the thalmor demands. You can bet he had a lot of pent up hostility by that point. Igmund gave him something to release it on. I bet he looked absolutely insane to pretty much everyone else at that point.

The Americans are named after one guy ...

....

Sometimes I get the feeling people opine on these subjects without listening to Ulfric at all. Have you heard his conversation with Galmar about the Jagged Crown? He is skeptical and doesn't want to waste resources on it. It is Galmar who pushes him that he needs a symbol of the ancient kings of Skyrim.

They are taking credit in the dossier. They aren't going to publicize that outside their own circles because they think they can use Ulfric in the future.

That's an interesting opinion coming from someone with an Argonian avatar. I suppose the Dunmer and Argonians' treatment of each other amounts to enlightened cooperation. lol

Ulfric is a politician. Politicians are lying two-faced skunks. QED.

Rikke does the same thing with Tullius. I just gotta say i love when people cite that as evidence of Tullius being ignorant or uncaring of nord culture. It makes me chuckle.

That comes from things out of Tullius' own mouth.

of course, but I've heard some over-simplified arguments that don't mention the details.

Refresh my memory, what is it Tullius says during his discussions with Rikke about the crown?

GUYS GUYS even if Ulfric is a two faced liar and indeed desire power it'll all end when he's dead but what he fought for will remain so even if he won and turned out to be an awful high king and then died it doesn't matter because the nords of skyrim sided with him to restore talos worship, traditions, etc.

as for the nords being raciest, well you can't blame them when their fighting for their beliefs and the other races just watch.

and as for the thalmor, well if they attacked skyrim maybe hummerfall will join then cyradill who knows!!

*sigh*

i hate it when people post topics like this, they all just decend into petty aruguments about who is right and wrong...

seriousley, if oyur not just makeing trouble by creating yet NOTHER topic on this tedious subject, then just type in something like "imperial vs stormcloak" on the search, you will get 100's of serches on the subject....

as i have stated before, long ago did i lose interest in posting in this topic which mulled over so many times, and therfore will not be bothering to read any views on the matter.

either post something new or something slightly interesting or do not bother AT ALL

good day to you all

How can you tell if a politician is lying?
A: His lips are moving.

He says disparaging things about the Nords in a lot of conversations, even the first one you overhear in Castle Dour. "You Nords and your ___" jarls, traditions, petty grievances, etc. etc. Legate Rikke has the patience of a saint.

I don't think he hates Nords, he's just your typical imperial and he's there to do a job and is frustrated that he can't just sweep it all away.

^This is absolutely hilarious post. I have played both quest lines too and after the Imperial quest line you know that Imperials treat you much worse than Stormcloaks. Also after the Imperial questline I knew that they are the wrong side to be on. And there's no need to say anything about Tullius. In the end of Imperial quest line you know that he is the worst character in the game. How can anyone be so brutal, selfish, stupid, dishonored and impolite than Tullius?

I think we may have a slight misunderstanding here. I'm not at all saying he doesn't say those things. I'm merely saying I don't think he says them when he and Rikke are discussing the Jagged Crown.

If you think enabling a tool of the Thalmor to help aid in the destruction of the world is good then yes, the Imperials are the right side to go with. If you believe in the continued existance of mankind and the world as a whole, well then I don't see how you could bring yourself to play a knowing tool in a grand game to unmake creation.

Yes, Ulfric Stormcloak is a two-faced liar. He's a good ruler, politician, and warrior, though, and doesn't treat anyone and everyone like dirt just because he can. Tullius, on the other hand, is a five-star berk, and Elisif reminds me a bit of Marie Antoinetter - pretending to be a shepherdess whilst everything falls apart around her.

then why even bother coming in here and posting.


OT: I will continue to support the stomcloaks, their cause is a lot more just iMO and like talo's himself said its time for a change.