Tullius is WAY better then Ulfric, Imperials are better the Stormcloaks, While Ulfric just wants to control EVERYTHING, The Stormcloaks are power hungry and are fighting for a false cause.

Fixed.

All politicians lie.

The difference between Ulfric and Tullius is Ulfric wears his heart on his sleeve for the Nords. Tullius only wants the Nords to stay true to the Empire because it is all about power. They lost a few providences during the Great War and now stand to lose Skyrim. Loosing Skyrim would be a huge blow for the Empire since Nords are very strong and capable warriors.

Tullius plan of action is to lie to the Jarls (you see this in Solitude) and shake hands with the enemy. At the end, Tullius surrenders.

Tullius: I surrender!

Ulfric: The Empire I knew would never surrender.

Tullius: That Empire is dead.

After playing Oblivion and seeing the Empire then and seeing how they are now the Empire has become what they made themselves to be, which is nothing more then weaklings trying to hold on to an Empire that they themselves could not hold on too.

While in the end the Empire will probably over throw the Thalmor (for story reasons to not end the ETS), I think what is best for Skyrim is to detach themselves from a crumbling Empire and no longer be the puppet. And I for one cannot blame those who choose to join the Stormcloaks-not one bit.

Meta-Fixed.

Well.... I'll try to keep this reasonable in length (though I could go on about it a full book's worth probably....)

None of the "quest mains" in this game (other than Paarthurnax) are people with any "bottom" at all. Tullius is "following orders" - of the Thalmor ex the (very far away and not very "present" in other ways) Emperor - and most likely has visions of grandeur himself (as in, sees himself as the "real goods" when it comes to rulers). Ulfric is simply an ass - who seems to be able to use some sort of charisma to sway Nords (not MY girls thank you.... he's smarmy, and a schmuck). The "Blades" are antiques who don't have a clue about where they came from, what the Blades were before (though I've never been a Blades fan-person, from Arena on), or what they even should be doing in this current world. The Greybeards are pacifists, and I have zero use for anyone of that ilk, IRL or in a game.

So basically, the MQ and civil war questlines hold no interest for me. Nor does being Dragonborn. My last few toons haven't bothered with the shout stuff, and haven't missed it. But you see, that's the WONDERFUL thing about TES - I don't HAVE to do any of that to have a blast in this game.

Awww. Did Ulfric not powder your bum? I'm sure he's sorry.

Look, he's so sorry he's http://stormcloak.tumblr.com/post/14705799759/were-dancing-because-skyrim-needs-shufflers-and for you.

I c wut u did thur.....But no, Thats wrong, The Stormcloaks want their traditions, The Empire want Power, They lied about how the High king was killed, he was killed in a Duel in the Nordic way against Ulfric, To try and gain support for the Empire. They submitted to the Thalmor, the Stormcloaks want to end the Thalmor. Yes, the Stormcloaks are very racist, but, After what the Dominion has done, I can understand why they would be. [removed]

Ra'vhash has no time for the petty squabbles of men. Ra'vhash is more interested in adventure, making a name for himself. Leave the war to the fool-hardy, and leave it to the cunning to turn a profit.
- Ra'vhash, Khajiit - Rogue

This is exactly what I was thinking! The side you choose is a preferential choice, there is no objectively right or wrong choice as each has positive and negative points. It's a normative choice based on your values and how you prioritize them.

'A man who lives, lives to fight another day,' is a good quote for the Empire. It makes them flexible, albiet, seemingly cowardly. As Gen. Patton was put as saying in the movie that bears his name, "War isn't about dying for your country. It's about making some other poor b@st#rd die for his." That is what makes the Empire the long term stronger of the two sides. The Stormcloak side is inflexible and intolerant. It is doomed to failure and misery in the long run. The Empire can take set backs so long as it survives. If it is surviving, it can always make a comeback. The same can't be said for Ulfric.

That's all well and good until you watch a woman die.

Spin that?

Umm, no.

The Imperials treat you like brothers in arms.

While the Stormcloaks don't have that vibe towards you, their also racist.

? What on earth are you talking about? Gender means nothing in this game....

LOL, NO.

Ulfric request to talk to Torygg.

Ulfric comes in and shouts Torygg to the ground then stabs him.

Like one person mentioned...It's like Ulfric barges in, takes out his machine gun, and murderers an innocent man.

It's even mentioned that Torygg admired Ulfric.

Ulfric is a crazed murderer who wants power even if it means killing his friends.

agianst cat people and scaly lizard folk? i don't blame them, if you had never seen a catman and one just walked down the street you'd probably flip out too, also the dunmer in skyrim are lazy bums who seem pretty content in their ghettos, finally elves are the long hated enemies of nords its hard to get past that cultural hate...the high elves sure havent

They're not any more racist than the imperials. That's such BS. A couple of drunks in Windhelm =/ the Stormcloaks are racist.

You really don't need to supersize your fonts. It highlights the spelling errors.

Er. No. Not at all. The Khajiit and Argonians have been full members of "NPC and Player Races" since Arena. Whether they're persona non grata in Skyrim is something each person discovers on her own (or not.... as a PC, your race doesn't matter at all). Truthfully, for all that I have NO use for Ulfric, I haven't found any more racism among the 'cloaks than among the normal guards or the Empire. In fact, Ri'J is a bit tired of one particular Riften guard calling her "cat" and making remarks about "sneak thief" - when Ri'J is NOT a thief at all.

[Psst - Celan.... it wasn't a spelling error - it was a homonym error.... "their" instead of "they're"....]

Play as a new Imperial -> Go to Riften -> Go to The Bee & Barb -> Look for an old man.

They are racist against anyone who isn't a nord.

No. They're not.

Ralof tells you that you don't have to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim. Nords who join the Stormcloaks are tested like anyone else. Ulfric says that Skyrim is home not only to Nords.

So you tell me. What does Ulfric, Galmar or Ralof say or do that is racist?

Sybille Stentor the court wizard at Solitude disagrees with you. She confirms that Ulfric did challenge Torygg and that Torygg accepted.

I've yet to meet a racist imperial. Not that I'm disputing any examples, but I can't recall one yet. They all have a more impersonal, militaristic characterization. Tullius is the closest it comes, and even what he says isn't racist. He's more like an outsider, who's ignorant about the nuances of Nords. That's why he has Rikke to help. He eventually opens up more. Avenecci is another who kind of speaks from ignorance, but it's not racist.

You know.... there's a lot of rhetoric going on, and mostly I think it's people who either don't "get" the "do what feels right to you" vibe in these games (so they spend a LOT of empty hot air trying to convince whothehellever they did it "right") or it's people who simply can't understand that others choose a different path for good and sufficient reasons of their own.

There's NO point in arguing over any of this.

Ulfric isn't racist.

But every nord in his city is.

Ulfric isn't racist

But he leaves the minorities to live in ghettos.

Ulfric isn't racist

But everyone in his stormcloak army (including himself) yells "Skyrim is for the Nords"

No, Ulfric is not racist. No sir-e-bob.

That's a general Nord battle cry. The mercenaries will use that, and they're not for either side. I quite like when they shout it at mudcrabs.

"Every" Nord in Windhelm is racist? Right. You're just trolling. At least it was entertaining for a little while, big fonts especially.

So Torygg accepts to fight someone who he admires for no reason at all that is known to him?