this is what makes the argonians the greatest race on mundas, although they would never admit it

no, but i could go check my mage's book shelf (he collects a lot of books) for it

I also love how most of them are cheerful and hard-working. They don't whine half as much as the Dunmer even though they're twice as bad off.

I have not found anything concrete on any evidence about the situation, I am just thinking the Stormcloaks are giving the Argonians the short end of the stick, I feel the Dunmer have horrid living conditions and Ulfric is ignoring them to renovate the Gray Quater, but the Argonians have completely gotten the shaft and they cannot even enter the city, preposterous. Then we have Khajiit caravans and they do not even settle around a city it makes me sick. I wish Winterhold did not go into the ocean as the Dunmer probably could have had a better home there, and maybe just maybe the Argonians could have had more freedom to enter the cities, tho I doubt it.
Thank you, I came here to read about the issue with the Argonains and then I seen it was your thread, and I must say I agree about the condition of the Argonians, its unacceptable.

That was in the 1st and 2nd eras as of main series the only group i know of that practiced it outside the religious context was house telvanni for the most part though it's an automatic death sentence.

Yes I've often heard that name here on the forums. Telvanni. So what's the deal with them? Could a lore-master enlighten me?

One of the factions from morrowindhttp://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:House_Telvanni

Sound like the Confederates, but way, bigger [censored]s.

Close they had poor relations with every other faction in the game if memory serves me right.

If I were to say...play Morrowind, could I eradicate all houses?

Great House Telvanni was the greatest faction and guild of TES series, I loved them and their cut throat nature.
They was the great mage lords of Vvardenfell and Otheral and Andoral was both members to that house and yes Otheral is my screen name.

Yes they did and they expanding making life difficult for both Redoran and Hlaalu. They was also very ruthless.

Coming to think of it, there are a lot of Dunmer in Skyrim with last names like these. I specifically remember Hlaalu and Telvanni, so they're members right?

Yeah they didn't have the immortal quest npc markers then though the main quest required working with them all, that said though you may actually like house redoran they where quite Honorable all around. Edit the ones in skyrim if i where to guess are just the ones who escaped the country after red mountain i'm not sure if house telvanni exists anymore or not, and hlaalu are a completely separate and rival house.

They used to be all of the Great Houses fell and Telvanni was the last to fall.

J'rahzir is shocked! Khajiit has found himself agreeing with all! Let the Argonian into the city of the Tall and Hairy One with the Vivid Fondness for Blue! Be sure to arm the Argonian and remind them of the Dunmer! But, what is a fair society without fairness, hrm? Arm the Dunmer and tell them of the Argonian when they enter the city! Good fun for all, yes? Solves two problems at once! All is happy! Joyful day, joyful day!

from what i have read and people i have talked to in that city, is that the dunmer pretty much chose to isolate themselves in the gray quarter, they themselves even changed the name. I believe it was all because they were pissed off that there wasnt any areas or pubs that specialized to the dunmer culture or ways. The khajits are not allowed in ANY city, even if u complete the imperial playthru due to many different reasons, one is that they are pretty much revere the thalmor because of the whole moons thing and they are notorously known to smuggle drugs and steal.
The stormcloaks havent enforced the dunmer to the grey quarter, actually the nords really have no authority over them or ties to them, since they dont pay taxes and dont have to pay lip service to a jarl. Its basically ll on them for being seperated and isolated because that was what they wanted. Now the people hwo didnt want that are basically running shops and even farms that hire nords to work under them. case in point, things as far as the slums have been like that for soem time now.

As far as argonians, it might the hist or it might just be a simple story of a corrupt bossman/woman who has thier workers hooked on drugs and stealing from the pay to where they cant afford to live in the city.

I know when the Dunmer first settled they settled a lot of them in Winterhold and that city was very rich in Dunmer culture and then after the Great Collapse they traveled to Windhelm. That is when they probably cut themselves off because of the two great disasters that has fallen upon them I know some went back to Morrowind, and its hard for those Dunmer that now have families in Skyrim to uproot and leave for another nation. I knoiw they have sent request to Ulfric to rebuild the Gray Quarter but he has ignored them several times.

Yes, its still strange that there is no Khajiit in any city even the empire controlled ones the Khajiit are aligned with the Dominion.

as far as the rebuilding, from what i have heard from Ulfric is not that his renovating, its just he dosent have time to deal with thier problems seeing how hes in a war. Maybe be different story if they either paid taxes or they supported him in the war, but seeing how they dont do either i dotn see them being in the top 10 of his important to do list. from the ipression i got wasnt that he wouldnt ever deal with thier problems, its justatm with the war he dosnt have time to deal with thier problems or the resourses to spare.

From what I understand their situation has been neglected for a while: I wish Ulfric could have just seen the benefit of a united empire where he could have been a great general and together with the empire rebuild the crumbling empire and reclaim Morrowind and Black Marsh, then Hammerfell, but before that we need a new ruler on the throne as Mede is weak. He is not a capable leader. To me this honor that Ulfric goes on about is not for the Nords but himself he pretends this war is for the Nords but its really about power and honor for himself.

eh u also have to see that basically to him he got betrayed by the empire not once but twice. The first was emotional betrayal when he comes back and finds out that the Empire banned talos worshipping and nords are being dragged form thier homes to be sentenced away from the public basically to disappear forver. The second time was when the Empire hired him to reatke markarth in exchange for protection and freedom to worship talos and when the thalmor found out, the empire threw Ulfric under the bus since they alrdy had the city back and didnt want to start a second war so soon.

All of that....ya i can see Ulfrics point of view for a free Skyrim if the leaders are gonna be like that. Not saying that the empire is bad, i mean hey its not the septim empire i grew to love...but not necessary an evil empire.....just a weak one that cant or dosent protect the its citizens. I thik that why hes all gunho whenever a nord community is threatened is t show that unlike the empire he will take actionto protect.

Soooo much misinformation in this thread.

Why people think the Argonians are some docile innocent as a child race is beyond me. They sold their own kind into slavery! They Hist had knowledge of the Oblivion Crisis before it started and only bothered to save their own kind. The didn't even bother to warn the other races and neither did the Argonians. They arguably started the first Arnesian war and definitely started the second. Some of them tortured and manipulated one of their own sacred Hist trees to make a profit. Blackwood company? Remember that? They are not saints. They are just like everyone else and just because some are nice does not mean they are this grand completely innocent race of man-lizards. They invaded and massacred a people that just went through a bloody civil war to abolish slavery for them. Vengeance was uncalled for and showed how much they could be just like the ever so evil Dunmer. Yeah it is understandable that they would be pissed about slavery but if they were like how people want to portray them they would have had a different response to the Dunmer finally abolishing slavery and starting to become a better society because the shadow of the tribunal had finally been lifted from them.

Oh lets talk about the Dunmer and what they have been through, shrugging off their own long standing traditions and killing their own kind for the beast races, so that they could be free. That was the aforementioned civil war. Of course that is after their Gods which have been an important part of their lives for 3000+ years just got killed and all of their society was pretty much turned on its head. Then the Dunmer get a meteor dropped on their heads and a huge volcano erupts on them. After all that they get invaded by Argonians AND Nordic and Orcish mercenaries from two different sides. Then they get placed in a series of crappy situations where they have to basically beg from their ancient and old enemies. Then add Ulfric coming to power and treatin everything non-Nord like complete [censored] and you wonder why they are unhappy?

So what have the Argonians been though for the last 200 years? Happiness and freedom. Success even? You wonder why one i happy and one is not? Pfft...

You can run into a descendant of House Telvanni, quite possibly the last, in Skyrim. i will refrain from specifics since this is GD.

I would frequently join House Telvanni, since I love Magic specialists. And I was a staunch opponent of slavery, relesasing every slave I came across.

That is why I say they need a strong leader, but the Thalmor want to destroy the world, Ulfric wants power because Talos got banned and he got lied to by a weak empire, think of how much stronger the Stormcloaks and the empire could have been united like in ages past granted I want a new emperor. One not partial to race which clearly Ulfric is and one who is strong, one cannot let pride cloud their judgement in the face of a greater threat.

According to Scouts-Many-Marshes, it was Ulfric who said Argonians could not enter the city. That implies that before they could.

I assume he did that either because of the unrest already in the Grey Quarter being exacerbated by Argonians in the mix; because Black Marsh is more or less in the Dominion now; because they have a bad reputation anyway, or a combination of these.

Also , the main reason why Argonians aren't allowed in the Windhelm is Due to the number of Dark Elf's there.

They both have a huge amount of animosity towards each other and would likely come to blows most times they meet.


Saying " its the stormcloaks fault that argonians are not allowed in windhelm " is wrong, if that was the case The Stormcloak Jarl of Morthal wouldn't of had a Argonian as a Housecarl, nor would they be allowed in Riften city