What are your main worries for Brink? : Othor Games

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:22 am

Avoiding meat-grinder camping situations is all about map design. Valve is great at making TF2 maps such that there's nowhere you can put a sentry gun where it can't be destroyed by either a demoman or a soldier. (Actually, the number of sentries I've destroyed with the Medic's needle gun is kind of absurd.)

ET:QW had ways to punch through turtle defenses: you could order fire support, and as long as they didn't have an artillery interceptor, you could absolutely ruin their deployables as well as deny them a certain part of the map for a little while. (If they did have an artillery interceptor, you could still order air strikes using a colored smoke marker, or just get an Operative to hack the interceptor before you start shelling.) The equivalent in Brink will probably be those "area denial grenades" Soldier is supposed to get. Tear gas will likely snake around corners and into windows where normal grenades would have a tough time reaching. Operatives can also use smoke grenades to block the enemy's sight so their team can advance.

Overall, I don't worry about SD failing to address camping. They want to make a game they can play and have fun, and if the defending team can bunker down and not do anything interesting, and win, then they will get irritated and change it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 am

Another thing that they did in previous games was objectives didn't constantly reset when guys got killed, so it's not like you need to start over from scratch every time -

Ex. when you would hack something, whatever the completion bar was at when you died, is where it stayed, so another player could start hacking from where you left off, instead of starting over. Also, when Engineers would build things, they went in stages - so if a bridge had 3 stages before it was complete, it would "save" after you hit a stage. And I think the more players who interact with objectives, the faster they get done.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:26 am

Yeah I wish operative had some tactical adv aside from abilities. There is definitely no speed boost or area unlock that isn't controlled by body type, so if you go stealth, try med/light before heavy.

On to the part I am worried about...

I hope the game has friendly fire (default on for consoles), because otherwise players will just spy-check, regardless of experience deductions per bullet etc. Serious gamers in particular will abuse the fact that you cannot teamkill because if the game goes MLG, experience doesn't matter, winning does.

Also, I hope changing into a disguise takes a while (five seconds or more, that way it incentivises smart playing, not just boosting for the 200xp, which would cause ppl to stack operative just for the fast xp, screwing the team as a whole). Next, I hope the operative's ability to spot other disguised operatives takes a lot of distribution points, because otherwise everyone is going to use it for the free kills, defense, etc. You really cannot have one of the previous suggestions without the other though, otherwise it makes the operative's ability to disguise either underpowered or overpowered.

I would prefer a hardcoe approach to stealth, ie you look like an enemy to teammates (thus teammates attack you), but your enemies--most likely--won't (FF is on) without provocation or odd behavior (even different footstep volumes per body type, ie heavy=thunk while walking, light=almost no sound, even when running, so if you pick the wrong body type--statistically a 2/3 chance--you can be found out by a player that pays attention to detail), that way you have to avoid being obvious while avoiding being killed by your teammates on the frontlines. It would make MLG impressive to say the least, seeing as spy is interesting in competitive TF2 already. Since interrogation's radar reveals spies, I don't think FF and no operative ability for finding enemy operatives would end up making spies that OP (granted you might need to add footstep distinction as well, just to give the cautious player the adv 2/3 of the time). You never know, maybe the spy will forget which team he is on and start shooting his teammates. XD

Really, when it comes down to it, you have to "focus on the stealth 100%" Any way SD does it, I'll probably be happy since I won't play operative that often: operative will be overplayed, seeing as so many people consider themselves ninjas/spies/assassins/whatever-they-want-to-call-it.

Very nice idea. I hope developers read these forums and take into account player ideas like some companies do.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:08 am

Very nice idea. I hope developers read these forums and take into account player ideas like some companies do.

Some do. There's often not so much difference between player and developer ideas. :ninja:

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:13 pm

i guess if you look at it that way.

im just saying i dont want that camper mentality that people get when they are in areas where they know they will get kills

Its the KillerCross.

and thats wat makes brink awesome

kills dont give enough XP for campers to benefit from.

unless ur objective is to actually defend an area of the map the XP flows.

but otherwise random camping wont benefit anyone.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:32 am

Some do. There's often not so much difference between player and developer ideas. :ninja:

Great minds think alike.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:18 pm

Its the KillerCross.

and thats wat makes brink awesome

kills dont give enough XP for campers to benefit from.

unless ur objective is to actually defend an area of the map the XP flows.

but otherwise random camping wont benefit anyone.

yea but its not just the xp. some people enjoy the feeling of knowing that they bested somebody and killed them. i know i enjoy the feeling of knowing that i got the best of the person

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:02 am

yea but its not just the xp. some people enjoy the feeling of knowing that they bested somebody and killed them. i know i enjoy the feeling of knowing that i got the best of the person

I like killing, but I like winning more.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:19 am

I like killing, but I like winning more.

i used to but mw2 ruined that for me

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:27 am

I hope the game has friendly fire (default on for consoles), because otherwise players will just spy-check, regardless of experience deductions per bullet etc. Serious gamers in particular will abuse the fact that you cannot teamkill because if the game goes MLG, experience doesn't matter, winning does.

Also, I hope changing into a disguise takes a while (five seconds or more, that way it incentivises smart playing, not just boosting for the 200xp, which would cause ppl to stack operative just for the fast xp, screwing the team as a whole). Next, I hope the operative's ability to spot other disguised operatives takes a lot of distribution points, because otherwise everyone is going to use it for the free kills, defense, etc. You really cannot have one of the previous suggestions without the other though, otherwise it makes the operative's ability to disguise either underpowered or overpowered.

Everyone will not stack Operative for free kills and XP, because like you mentioned, experience doesn't matter, winning does, and you can't win without a balanced team and teamwork.

yea but its not just the xp. some people enjoy the feeling of knowing that they bested somebody and killed them. i know i enjoy the feeling of knowing that i got the best of the person

But you really didn't get the "best" of anyone, because even if you kill that person 1,000 times, his team can still win. The mentality that you're thinking of, is something I hope doesn't plague Brink.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:08 am

Everyone will not stack Operative for free kills and XP, because like you mentioned, experience doesn't matter, winning does, and you can't win without a balanced team and teamwork.

I want to live in the universe where this accurately describes how people will behave. Except at the competitive level, many will do whatever the objective wheel tells them they'll get the most XP for, and SD is relying on this to create team players from selfish twits.

The reason everyone won't stack Operative for free kills and XP is that the kills won't be free and there'll be lots of XP for doing other stuff, like buffing weapons, shielding teammates, healing and reviving them, and even just standing around fighting in the right spots. In the demo build, players were given 10 XP every second just for being near the maintenance bot or the gate, plus bonus XP for killing enemies who were near these hotspots. Engineers were able to get 75 XP just for buffing a teammate's weapon, and Soldiers 50 XP for refilling a teammate's ammo and 10 XP/s for shielding teammates. Are you so sure Operative is going to be the easiest class for farming XP?

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:05 pm

yea but its not just the xp. some people enjoy the feeling of knowing that they bested somebody and killed them. i know i enjoy the feeling of knowing that i got the best of the person

It is very satisfying.

I like killing, but I like winning more.

Winning is the most satisfying.

I want to live in the universe where this accurately describes how people will behave. Except at the competitive level, many will do whatever the objective wheel tells them they'll get the most XP for, and SD is relying on this to create team players from selfish twits.

The reason everyone won't stack Operative for free kills and XP is that the kills won't be free and there'll be lots of XP for doing other stuff, like buffing weapons, shielding teammates, healing and reviving them, and even just standing around fighting in the right spots. In the demo build, players were given 10 XP every second just for being near the maintenance bot or the gate, plus bonus XP for killing enemies who were near these hotspots. Engineers were able to get 75 XP just for buffing a teammate's weapon, and Soldiers 50 XP for refilling a teammate's ammo and 10 XP/s for shielding teammates. Are you so sure Operative is going to be the easiest class for farming XP?

In fact the operative will likely be the hardest to farm with. Engineers buff, medics heal, and soldiers give ammo. However perhaps the EXP is great for the operative since it isn't as easy.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:41 am

Brink turning into CoD:MW2 :mad:

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:53 am

In fact the operative will likely be the hardest to farm with. Engineers buff, medics heal, and soldiers give ammo. However perhaps the EXP is great for the operative since it isn't as easy.

the only reason being an operative will be so hard is because you have to fight against all of the other operatives on your team to get the xp

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:07 pm

the only reason being an operative will be so hard is because you have to fight against all of the other operatives on your team to get the xp

Wraith is on to something, actually. Medics, soldiers, and engineers can all contribute to the team just by interacting with each other, which will be comparatively easy. Operatives, by contrast, have to interact with the enemy--hacking turrets, interrogating the wounded, et cetera. Enemies shoot at you. So even if you are the only one on your team, it's not like you can slack off and farm XP: you have to be out on your own, avoiding notice, killing enemies who did notice you, hacking turrets before their engineers figure out you're there. And an operative who does a lot of killing might consequently not do a lot of objectives, since he's drawing attention to himself; for Soldiers and Medics, it's easy to get class objectives done in a firefight, because their objectives are: heal people who just got shot, block incoming fire with your body, give teammates ammo, blow stuff up.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:15 pm

im worried about there not being enough customization, and not enough weapons, and people not working as teams for example light operatives just running off and doing there own thing. and i hope the smart system will not fail.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:20 am

i hope the smart system will not fail.

if it fails then do it manually

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:55 am

im worried about there not being enough customization, and not enough weapons, and people not working as teams for example light operatives just running off and doing there own thing. and i hope the smart system will not fail.

Well a large part of being an operative is running off an doing your own thing. If you want to stay cowered behind your team play a medic.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:26 pm

Well a large part of being an operative is running off an doing your own thing. If you want to stay cowered behind your team play a medic.

im feeling some hate off of this. so the medics are the cowards and the light operatives are the tough rambo guys.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:47 am

Well a large part of being an operative is running off an doing your own thing. If you want to stay cowered behind your team play a medic.

Seeing as how Medics need to run out on the battlefield to make revives, and dish out medkits to those in need, not to mention that they are needed for core objectives in Brink, I would say they are far from the "coward" class. If anything, they are the ones that really need to come through when their team needs them.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:57 pm

im feeling some hate off of this. so the medics are the cowards and the light operatives are the tough rambo guys.

Not at all. "Operatives shouldn't go off and do their own thing." This is one of the key concepts of the Operative class. While Medics are normally the main support character, but with Brink both the Soldier and the Engineer have ways to support (aka buff) teammates. As Rahdo stated, "operatives are given the abilities to reach out and touch the enemy." Operatives need to be out there messing up the enemy. However Operatives will also be good to keep enemy operatives off the rest of your team.

Operatives, medics, and the rest of the classes all have their niche and purpose. Operatives should be running off disrupting the enemy team. While medics are with the bulk of the team moving towards the objective. If you see a medic wandering off on his own you would be like wtf? Likewise if an Operative is just sitting with his team you would be like wtf?

Seeing as how Medics need to run out on the battlefield to make revives, and dish out medkits to those in need, not to mention that they are needed for core objectives in Brink, I would say they are far from the "coward" class. If anything, they are the ones that really need to come through when their team needs them.

I didn't call the Medic a coward. It was just an example of how the classes are intended to play. Cower was perhaps not the right word but what Medic isn't going to want a Soldier covering them?

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:21 pm

I didn't call the Medic a coward. It was just an example of how the classes are intended to play. Cower was perhaps not the right word but what Medic isn't going to want a Soldier covering them?

But why limit it to a Medic? If I was ANY class, I would want someone covering me. The reasons why Medics tend to want cover, is because they are such a targeted class - not because they are weak, but because they are the lifeline of a team.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:56 am

But why limit it to a Medic? If I was ANY class, I would want someone covering me. The reasons why Medics tend to want cover, is because they are such a targeted class - not because they are weak, but because they are the lifeline of a team.

Alright now you guys are putting words in my mouth. My entire point was the foolishness of not playing classes as the GD intended. All the other classes have means to buff each other with the Medic being the traditional one in most shooters.

MEDIC was an example since it was the traditional support character and most likely to stay and support the team. I have having medics on my team. Unlike all the Medics in BF:BC who never dropped any med packs then shoot you when you asked for one.

PS do we know how shielding works

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:18 am

i'm not too worried about the storyline being boring. If you're buying this game for the storyline you might as well watch a pormo film for the plot.. this game is a full on multiplayer game. YES i hope it turns out like TF2/CS!! What i mean by that is that it can be a competitive game.

That said, my worries would be balance issues, mainly the explosive weapons or some combination of body type and weapon that makes it GHEY..

2nd worry would be.... HAXXXX HAXX HAXX!!!!

3rd worry.. game's release date gets pushed back again! xD (jk, i love it when developers push games back for testing reasons.. shows dedication and the promise that the game will probably kick asssssssSS$$$!!)

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:13 am

No pirate or penguine outfit.