This.

Hell after finding the journals and hearing the story even I wanted to raze the town to the ground, and I'm usually a do-gooder. :rofl:

You need to read the Fallout Wiki again under Society, and the Behind the Scenes blurb at the end written by Mr. Sawyer.
This is quoted directly from the Wiki:
"Caesar's Legion is effectively an enormous, conscripted slave army."

You actually get bad karma for killing BoS.

That is what I said implicitly. "I don't gain GOOD karma from shooting BoS. It's all good.

Though the West Coast BoS are flawed and like many organizations, they've had some bad apples within their ranks, they are officially a "Good" faction. The NCR are "Neutral" and of course the Legion are "Evil."

I've read some stuff on the wiki that Sawyer has said about Legion...it's all about how they're scum...duh Legion ending is obviously not going to be canon :sadvaultboy: Why don't the devs see the Legion in the same light that I do? :cryvaultboy: THIS IS A BOS THREAD HERE! Let's stay on topic :spotted owl:

I meant there's less of it and it's not as harsh. Also, there are people who aren't in the Legion, who live on their lands, who AREN'T slaves . But they do have actual citys and the such.

Re-reading that it still seems like I'm ignorant. Bah whatever, I'm to tired to make it make sense <_<

"This horde of cruel, yet highly disciplined slavers has spread across the southwest like an all-consuming flame. Founded by a fallen member of the Followers of the Apocalypse, Caesar's Legion is effectively an enormous, conscripted slave army. As Caesar conquers the peoples of the wasteland, he strips them of their tribal identities and turns their young men into ruthless legionaries and women into breeding stock. They are well organized, moving and attacking in large packs, and deliberately commit atrocities to terrorize those who might dare oppose them.

Nearly all physically capable, compliant males are compelled to serve in its armed forces. The primary value of pre-menopausal females is to serve as breeding stock (with Caesar or a legate governing how they are assigned to males), though they, like older females and less physically-capable men, are also used to perform a variety of other tasks. The largest unit of organization in Caesar's Legion is the "Cohort", numbering about 480 infantrymen. Cohorts are further divided into "Centuriae", which contrary to their name numbers about 80 men, and each Centuriae is divided into ten "tent groups" ("Contubernia"), making this the squad level of organization. Raiding parties are of this size (about eight men) and will be led by a Decanus (squad leader). "


Sounds like Rome...or Greece, (it's been a few years since my ancient history courses) during their periods of conquering, and I personally think that Edward has an issue with women, something about his mother :sadvaultboy:

Personally I like the BoS in the east but if they had the weapons of the Mojave chapter and cool ass bunker, then I'd be like

amen

I second that amen.

Except that in Rome and Greece cannabalism was an abomination, and although women were still second class citizens they still had some respect, and in some areas positions of authority.
Now then, on topic...I do think that BoS is in decline, and any future Fallout games should downplay their presence in the Wasteland. However, it seems it will not be so. They seem to be promoted as the Face of Fallout, like some freakin mascot or something.

About the BoS- I like the Eastern/Midwestern ideals, dislike the western ideals.

My random thought, I completely agree with Enclave ideals and think that is the best way to retake the world(Can't help what you think is right)

About the Legion since people are talking about that, they banned drugs and alcohol which is saying more then the NCR and it's communities.

The Texan BOS aren part of the continuity :whistling:

Yeah I know, but I live in Texas, and it would be cool to have something from Fallout here. :sadvaultboy:

not really, or was there some other way to complete the restoring the purifier, and liberty prime battle for the Enclave? Striking the citadel was also a pointless choice because all it did was make the BoS hostile to you, and eliminate a vendor. It's didn't effect your relationship with the Enclave one bit. The Story Forced you to work for them to continue the storyline. It's been ages but don't they force yo uto join up with Sarah to be a member of the pride as well at the end.

^^ Yes you are right about Sarah and becoming an honorary member of the BoS.

You think genocide is the right move?

I really don't get the arguments against Fallout 3 that state "you are forced to work with the BoS to get to the purifier". Fallout 1 forces you to work with the inhabitants of Vault 13, Fallout 2 forces you to work with the inhabitants of Arroyo. Why, then, does FO3 deserve hate for forcing you to work with the BoS? You can no more join the Enclave and help them out in FO2 than you can in FO3. Either we're leveling equal complaints at FO2 for linearity here, or it's not a valid point of contention.

In any case, the purifier assault is justified whether you are actually working with the BOS or intend to poison the Wasteland. Remember, at that point Eden has lost control over the rank-and-file troops. If you're going to get to the Purifier to unleash the FEV, the only way to do it is to muscle your way in with the BoS and kill any Enclave that get in the way. You're entirely able to throw Sarah's offer of power armor and an honorary place in the Pride right back in her face, and go into the purifier battle not as a BoS member but just somebody using them as convenient allies. Again, you do not have to join Sarah and the BoS at the end of FO3; you can basically spit in her face when she makes the offer to join them.

If anything, FO3's main quest ending allows you much more flexibility and freedom than FO1 or 2. In FO3 you are actually able to take actions resulting in the death/destruction of the primary "good" factions in the game (FEV poison, nuking the Citadel) and still proceed, while in FO1&2 if you fail to save Vault 13 or the Arroyo villagers you flat out lose, period. You are also not obligated to help the BoS at all in Broken Steel. You can load it up, walk right out of the Citadel, and never look back. If you don't like the BoS, you aren't compelled to play their questline at all. Just go off and enjoy the open-ended world.

On topic, I personally absolutely love the BoS. I can understand the hate, because they are a bit silly after all (knights and death rays!) but I love them for it.

Against Super Mutants and ghouls(of all sorts)? Yes. Against the other members of the wasteland? Then I would be just another faceless Enclave soldier just following orders. Seriously this would be the faction I would want to be in throughout Fallout.

You'd be wrong on the Fallout 1 remarks or haven't you seen the "master wins" end movie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfyqlMBeQFU yeah it really looks like your helping out Vault 13 there. Fallout 2 was the only one with the concrete Kill the enclave save your village ending. Mostly because the Enclaves plan didn't give any outsiders options other then kill or be killed.

But choosing to be Eden's agent of death made no sense. The Lone Wanderer had nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so. What was his motivation? And the whole undercover agent thing was silly imo. It all just seemed forced and convoluted. The story clearly worked better if you chose the other path - the path you're apparently supposed to take which is also probobly in line with the canon. If it's not then the East Coast BoS no longer exists because they were whiped out by the Lone Wanderer.

Ah, true, my bad, I did forget you could side with the Master. Consider that mostly revoked, although you are still forced to cooperate with Vault 13 right up until the end (much like the BoS in FO3). The FO2 point stands, though. Whether or not their plan precluded deviation from the proscribed main quest is irrelevant; Black Isle designed the faction and quests that way, and could easily have made the player able to side with the Enclave (or at least betray his village) and still continue with the game in some manner. They chose not to. That's a valid design choice, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's kinda unfair to make excuses for FO2's linearity and accuse Fallout 3 of the same thing, especially when its main quest is less linear than FO2's.




I'm inclined to disagree that there was no sense behind helping Eden. The LW, as a vault dweller, would have believed himself to be non-mutated and so immune to the effects of the FEV. As such, it makes sense (from a certain perspective) to purge the wasteland of raiders, mutants and scavengers (that you didn't really like anyways) and clear the way for prime humans from the Enclave and the vaults to settle in a now-safe Capital Wasteland.
There's definitely a bit of shaky logic in there, sure, but it's definitely a defensible point of view.

Equally, one might ask, what might the Vault Dweller stand to gain from throwing his lot in with the Master and the Super Mutants? It's a non-canon choice based on some shaky logic that would destroy most of the factions we know and love today. Same principles, different decision. Siding with Eden or the Master is not the choice of a rational, sane, and good individual. Fortunately, the Vault Dweller and the Lone Wanderer don't have to be any of those things.

Never even once does the Wanderer express any intolerance for the existance of wastelanders. Even after you choose to help Eden it doesnt become a theme for him. He just did what he was asked to do with no comment on his reasoning for carrying out genocide.

Actually isn't it genocides? You would be killing off more then one group of people.