Why are people upset about no spears? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:38 pm

I could care less about the spears. They were fun but hey... whatever. I'm sick of all the OMG NO SPEARS, SKYRIM svckS!

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:47 pm

This is, without a doubt, my favorite bad attack on the developers ever.

So what we want here is for the developers to take features that barely make sense and have zero utility and force them to be useful? Yeah. That sounds like a great use of their time. Instead of working with features that fit naturally and easily into the game world, they should try and jam every possible feature in, regardless of its utility or aesthetic coherence.

On that note, I want them to figure out a way to make were-toads useful.

Good posting.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:50 pm

because we like spears

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:40 am

The spears versatility is problematic to implement.

It can be used
As a polearm
With a shield
Thrown
as shown in the game jam as a "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" martial arts weapon.

With those in mind do you perk under 1 handed or 2 handed
do you give it it's own perk tree
If you do that do you remove one perk tree or have the warrior have an extra tree

Or do you ignore the versatility and shoehorn it into one of the existing trees

No matter what they do there will be cries of it being OP or UP so they have very little to gain for a fair amount of work.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:50 am

Hmm how would spears work in Skyrim? One stab one kill (for Player and NPC) ? If not you stab and then change to sword? Same for Crossbow, you fire one bolt and then?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:05 am

I don't think we can talk "realistic" or not in a game where a dagger user can go toe to toe with a full plate wearing sword and board and win.

Spears do not have to be really long to work, 4-6 foot and with many grip points along with a counter weight make it just as viable with a shield. The counter weight can be a weapon in its self.
In a game where a dagger can "lol stab" a plate wearing enemies I fail to see why having spears is a problem.

Don't want to add spears? what about halberd's?

Crossbows would be awesome as well with some throwing axe's or daggers.
Bill hooks? (English bill) could be useful.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:41 am

Halberds are easy.Its just a poleaxe with a spike on top

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:07 am

No offense, but how exactly would Spears be any different than 2H Melee weapons that already exist in the game outside of the fact that their models and animations would be different? One can assume that the Perks would mirror 1H and 2H weapons. There is almost NO difference in 1H and 2H Melee weapons as it is when it comes down to Perks or how they work. You just use a weapon in 2 hands and deal more damage per hit than a single weapon. Further, people talk about throwing spears. That seems HIGHLY impractical. So now what you have another ammo type you cannot craft? I throw my spear and have to switch weapons? I just don't think people have thought through this very well. You want to "soften up" targets before you approach them, you have a Bow and Arrow, or Magicka, or Shouts. A Spear for all intents and purposes would just be a reskinned 2H weapon.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:55 am

No offense, but how exactly would Spears be any different than 2H Melee weapons that already exist in the game outside of the fact that their models and animations would be different? One can assume that the Perks would mirror 1H and 2H weapons. There is almost NO difference in 1H and 2H Melee weapons as it is when it comes down to Perks or how they work. You just use a weapon in 2 hands and deal more damage per hit than a single weapon. Further, people talk about throwing spears. That seems HIGHLY impractical. So now what you have another ammo type you cannot craft? I throw my spear and have to switch weapons? I just don't think people have thought through this very well. You want to "soften up" targets before you approach them, you have a Bow and Arrow, or Magicka, or Shouts. A Spear for all intents and purposes would just be a reskinned 2H weapon.

Throwing spear----->sneak attack?

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:36 pm

Throwing spear----->sneak attack?

Ok so you have javelins and spears? How do you handle the ammo? How much damage will it do? How do you get ammo? What would be the point of ever using a 2H weapon if it worked and dealt the same damage as 2Handers, had an extended range, AND you could throw it? That's like if the Archery tree and One-Hand were combined into a single Perk tree. Don't get me wrong, I can see Spears being fantastic, but BASED on how Skyrim is structured, Spears would svck.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:39 pm

They have removed a lot of weapons and fighting styles from what existed in their prior titles. Even though I'd like to see many of those return (throwing stars for my assassin) I'd rather see them beef up the factions and quests per faction first. In morrowind I felt like I had to play it over at least 3 different times if for nothing else other than the great houses quest lines. I've not had that feeling in a TES game since, which has been saddening.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:00 pm

No offense, but how exactly would Spears be any different than 2H Melee weapons that already exist in the game outside of the fact that their models and animations would be different? One can assume that the Perks would mirror 1H and 2H weapons. There is almost NO difference in 1H and 2H Melee weapons as it is when it comes down to Perks or how they work. You just use a weapon in 2 hands and deal more damage per hit than a single weapon. Further, people talk about throwing spears. That seems HIGHLY impractical. So now what you have another ammo type you cannot craft? I throw my spear and have to switch weapons? I just don't think people have thought through this very well. You want to "soften up" targets before you approach them, you have a Bow and Arrow, or Magicka, or Shouts. A Spear for all intents and purposes would just be a reskinned 2H weapon.

What if you want to get in touch with your inner spartan and use shield and spear?Or your inner cave man and use spears as a missle weapon to take down big game?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:30 am

Ok so you have javelins and spears? How do you handle the ammo?

Of course there would be no ammo. You throw your spear and collect it from the dead body. Or, from the ground

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:57 pm

What if you want to get in touch with your inner spartan and use shield and spear?Or your inner cave man and use spears as a missle weapon to take down big game?

Look, there are A TON of playstyles non-existent in Skyrim. Really and truly, there are a 3 ways to play Magicka, a Spellsword, a Warrior type, an Assassin, and a Ranger. Perks do not add enough definition to create distinct classes and oh man don't even get me started on appearance customization. It is so lackluster in Skyrim...But er - the environment looks good?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:31 am

Of course there would be no ammo. You throw your spear and collect it from the dead body. Or, from the ground :wink:

So you throw your Spear and are left empty handed. Incoming flood of people who throw their weapon and it 1.) Falls through the world 2.) Off a cliff 3.) etc. and they cannot retrieve it.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:38 pm

Of course there would be no ammo. You throw your spear and collect it from the dead body. Or, from the ground :wink:

Precisely. And it would do more damage than an arrow and may get stuck hindering the enemy in combat. However precision should be lacking, and range to. Preferebly it should be blockable.

Regarding fighting with spear in melee. Compared with other two handed weapon it would be faster and more sudden, however if it is blocked/parried you would be at a serious disadvantage.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:46 am

So you throw your Spear and are left empty handed. Incoming flood of people who throw their weapon and it 1.) Falls through the world 2.) Off a cliff 3.) etc. and they cannot retrieve it.

Naturally you have to aim good and not throw it off a cliff. And like in any battle, follow rule number 1: Always keep backup weapons :thumbsup:

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:05 am

If you throw a spear will it get put in an enemies inventory like arrows?If so can enemies throw it back at you?If so don't over enchant your spear payback is a [redacted]

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:46 am

If you throw a spear will it get put in an enemies inventory like arrows?If so can enemies throw it back at you?If so don't over enchant your spear payback is a [redacted]

Exchanging of javelins were common throughout history. However, if the javelin got stock it would take quite a hero to pull it out and throw it back.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:11 am

If you throw a spear will it get put in an enemies inventory like arrows?If so can enemies throw it back at you?If so don't over enchant your spear payback is a [redacted]

You know, New Vegas has already done throwing spears. I'd suggest looking at that game to get your answers.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:09 am

If you throw a spear will it get put in an enemies inventory like arrows?If so can enemies throw it back at you?If so don't over enchant your spear payback is a [redacted]

Of course it wouldn′t get into the enemy′s inventory. It would get into his body :wink_smile:

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:24 am

You know, New Vegas has already done throwing spears. I'd suggest looking at that game to get your answers.

Different system and different balance issues.The Ceaser's palace guys had to deal with people who use guns so rate of fire had to be exagerated to make it viable.The animation could be used though

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:20 am

Different system and different balance issues.The Ceaser's palace guys had to deal with people who use guns so rate of fire had to be exagerated to make it viable.The animation could be used though

Not really. The weapons are different, but fundamentally the systems are pretty much the same.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:08 am

Don't forget that Javelins were mostly not to kill people. The "Pilum" for some reason was used to disable the shields of an enemy since not many got killed by the Pilum.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:26 pm

No offense, but how exactly would Spears be any different than 2H Melee weapons that already exist in the game outside of the fact that their models and animations would be different? One can assume that the Perks would mirror 1H and 2H weapons. There is almost NO difference in 1H and 2H Melee weapons as it is when it comes down to Perks or how they work. You just use a weapon in 2 hands and deal more damage per hit than a single weapon. Further, people talk about throwing spears. That seems HIGHLY impractical. So now what you have another ammo type you cannot craft? I throw my spear and have to switch weapons? I just don't think people have thought through this very well. You want to "soften up" targets before you approach them, you have a Bow and Arrow, or Magicka, or Shouts. A Spear for all intents and purposes would just be a reskinned 2H weapon.

It's about reach. A spear or pole arm is an absolutely dominating weapon over the others. It has nothing to do with the throwing part.