Why Are There No Classes? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:03 pm

First of all, there were multiple guild locations with multiple spells to suit your designated class. And two, I just said "I am Dragonborn." and got in.

True you could do that, but i went though it with a warrior in oblivion. Couldn't even cast anything better than novice healing and guess what I was archmage. Morrowind was the only one to actually have a system to prevent this with it's skill check.

Edit- also they have teachers who teach each art in skyrim. The guild is smaller than the mages guild from oblivion so they are all just in the college.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:12 am

OKAY, how bout this. They had classes in EVERY other TES game and people enjoyed in well enough. Had it until Skyrim. They just wanted to dumb it down to appeal to the casual COD-type gamer. Its the same reason why I can be the master of the Mages College without casting a damned spell. They just dont want the player to be required to think. Same with classes. "I pick up hammer...smash stuff...level up..."

It was like that in Oblivion, remember? Only Daggerfall and Morrowind had skill requirements for guild advancement.

But yeah, it is simplified for the masses. Less spells, less types of weapons (what happened to shortswords?), and so much more removed. I've got 4 or 5 magic overhaul mods, and it's still not as fun as magic in Morrowind was.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:06 pm

OKAY, how bout this. They had classes in EVERY other TES game and people enjoyed in well enough. Had it until Skyrim. They just wanted to dumb it down to appeal to the casual COD-type gamer. Its the same reason why I can be the master of the Mages College without casting a damned spell. They just dont want the player to be required to think. Same with classes. "I pick up hammer...smash stuff...level up..."

Uh, no. Whether you like the changes or not, TES will never appeal to the casual gamer. You need to be patient to play these games because to fully develop your character takes time. In Skyrim, you are a blank slate. You make your character whatever you want them to be. Why do I need the game to tell me what I am?

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:07 am

Yes, but jst because i dont have a high end computer and a modded controller, doesnt mean i shouldnt be able to play a game fluently.

You don't have to have a high end computer - ALL computers have eight hotkeys. If you're using the 360 controller with a computer, just quit using the controller and go back to keyboard and mouse.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:49 pm

Uh, no. Whether you like the changes or not, TES will never appeal to the casual gamer. You need to be patient to play these games because to fully develop your character takes time. In Skyrim, you are a blank slate. You make your character whatever you want them to be. Why do I need the game to tell me what I am?

I have a level 81.5 of 3 different characters. The game just steers you to follow certain paths that the designers want you to fall into.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:14 pm

You've leveled three different characters to the cap? :eek:

(And, yet again, I have no idea why you keep saying that people are funneled directly to Warrior, Rogue, and Mage. There's literally nothing in the game doing this. edit: well, I suppose the guardian stones are a slight encouragement towards the three sets of six skills. But it's not like "sword levels faster" does anything to stop you from using Sneak, Lockpick, or Destruction.)

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:33 pm

I have a level 81.5 of 3 different characters. The game just steers you to follow certain paths that the designers want you to fall into.

You've leveled three different characters to the cap? :eek:

(And, yet again, I have no idea why you keep saying that people are funneled directly to Warrior, Rogue, and Mage. There's literally nothing in the game doing this.)

Well, apparently all those people who swear they're playing battlemages and illusionist/thieves and assassins and necromancer-firemages and the like - well, they're apparently all completely mistaken, and they're just playing warriors, mages and thieves. :bonk:

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:39 pm

I have a level 81.5 of 3 different characters. The game just steers you to follow certain paths that the designers want you to fall into.

What does level have to do with anything? Power leveling was in all the games, if you choose to use it it is only yourself you can blame. And having a 100 in all skill doesn't mean they are all of your classes skills, just means you powered leveled. To effectively power level in the other games you had to raise skills outside your classes range as well.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:47 pm

The game is totally Rogue oriented by far. To be at your full potential, you need to play as a rogue. Wearing Daedric armor, having the perk that makes it like weighless, and then being a master of sneak makes you invincible. Having sneak at master allows you to turn invisible while crouching and you can deal 15X damagage with a sneak attack. Having those dark brotherhood enchantments doubles that to 30X. Also *spoiler alert* the main questline makes you start the first quest with Brynjalf in order to acquire information. They are obviously pushing you in the direction of sneaking. You can essentially 1 shot any enemy doing that.

» Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 am

You've leveled three different characters to the cap? :eek:

(And, yet again, I have no idea why you keep saying that people are funneled directly to Warrior, Rogue, and Mage. There's literally nothing in the game doing this. edit: well, I suppose the guardian stones are a slight encouragement towards the three sets of six skills. But it's not like "sword levels faster" does anything to stop you from using Sneak, Lockpick, or Destruction.)

I share a cloud account. I have nowhere near that amount of time on my hands to do it by myself.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:48 pm

You've leveled three different characters to the cap? :eek:

(And, yet again, I have no idea why you keep saying that people are funneled directly to Warrior, Rogue, and Mage. There's literally nothing in the game doing this. edit: well, I suppose the guardian stones are a slight encouragement towards the three sets of six skills. But it's not like "sword levels faster" does anything to stop you from using Sneak, Lockpick, or Destruction.)

The class system in oblivion encouraged the use of certain archetypes more than the stones in skyrim since the class type was unchangable. Each class had a bonus to one of the three skill sets.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:32 pm

The game is totally Rogue oriented by far. To be at your full potential, you need to play as a rogue. Wearing Daedric armor, having the perk that makes it like weighless, and then being a master of sneak makes you invincible. Having sneak at master allows you to turn invisible while crouching and you can deal 15X damagage with a sneak attack. Having those dark brotherhood enchantments doubles that to 30X. Also *spoiler alert* the main questline makes you start the first quest with Brynjalf in order to acquire information. They are obviously pushing you in the direction of sneaking. You can essentially 1 shot any enemy doing that.

They aren't pushing you toward anything. They aren't even pushing you toward playing the main quest, since you can:

Spoiler

...since you can just not talk to the people in Riverwood that send you to the Jarl in Whiterun that kicks off the MQ.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:10 pm

I share a cloud account. I have nowhere near that amount of time on my hands to do it by myself.

Wait, what?

» Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:18 am

Skyrim's very limited perk allotment forces you into a pretty condense playstyle. The old class system allowed you to focus on 7 skills easily and you could work on anything else but it would take longer. Now its tricky to use more than 4-5 skills effectively. The perk system can work but I think it should be less frugal. But I honestly prefer classes and Fallout 3 style perks. That seems to be the way to go.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:38 pm

If anything, being forced to use fewer skills means it's harder to have your character be a "does everything, is good at everything" type character.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:42 am

The game is totally Rogue oriented by far. To be at your full potential, you need to play as a rogue. Wearing Daedric armor, having the perk that makes it like weighless, and then being a master of sneak makes you invincible. Having sneak at master allows you to turn invisible while crouching and you can deal 15X damagage with a sneak attack. Having those dark brotherhood enchantments doubles that to 30X. Also *spoiler alert* the main questline makes you start the first quest with Brynjalf in order to acquire information. They are obviously pushing you in the direction of sneaking. You can essentially 1 shot any enemy doing that.

Guess what, in oblivion the same occurred. Playing a certain way was better than another. I remember that mages could create extremely over powered spells that killed in one hit and armor that gave you complete invisibility permently. If you want to be op you do that, but most don't want to and can actually restrain. Themselves. As for the thieves guild you can skip that by just going into the ratway and speaking to the bartender. Don't have to do the quest.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:46 am

If anything, being forced to use fewer skills means it's harder to have your character be a "does everything, is good at everything" type character.

No, they have less skills and easier to level.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:56 am

I share a cloud account. I have nowhere near that amount of time on my hands to do it by myself.

And you blame the game for becoming op. that is laughable.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:28 pm

They aren't pushing you toward anything. They aren't even pushing you toward playing the main quest, since you can:

Spoiler

...since you can just not talk to the people in Riverwood that send you to the Jarl in Whiterun that kicks off the MQ.

In fairness, though, the DLC has changed that a bit.

Spoiler

I think you do need to go through through the MQ a bit for Dawnguard.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:50 pm

No, they have less skills and easier to level.

But you are restricted in perks. Without perks in said tree the skill is useless.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:20 pm

Skyrim's very limited perk allotment forces you into a pretty condense playstyle. The old class system allowed you to focus on 7 skills easily and you could work on anything else but it would take longer. Now its tricky to use more than 4-5 skills effectively. The perk system can work but I think it should be less frugal. But I honestly prefer classes and Fallout 3 style perks. That seems to be the way to go.

Exactly. They mainstreamed the game basically making you play in very limited ways.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:30 pm

If anything, being forced to use fewer skills means it's harder to have your character be a "does everything, is good at everything" type character.

Thats kind of what attributes were for, a mage might be good with a blade but his strength would be difficult to get as high as a warriors. Perks really force commitment way more than classes ever did. Classes didn't limit you, they were just a bonus. It is a bit too restrictive.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:14 pm

Dear gods use interpunctuation and spacing please.
Ill come back once its readable.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:02 pm

And you blame the game for becoming op. that is laughable.

Did I blame the game? No. You took that out of context. I was refering to another person's post saying "you got 3 chars to 81.5" and I explained that I had help. L2R

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:33 pm

Dear gods use interpunctuation and spacing please.
Ill come back once its readable.

What are you even talking about?