Wait so allowing you to be a god in everything is not mainstream? I thought you were proclass, with that attitude you want to be good at everything. You really making no sense here.

I wanted them to improve upon the class system not cut it out of the game. Just cuz something isnt perfect, doesnt mean you chop it. You hone it to make it work better.

Yes but what you had said before is that you were forced to 81. You weren't you power leveled. You could get attributes all to 100 in oblivion by power leveling. The difference is power leveling in skyrim still restricts you to your class which oblivion didn't. Overall skyrim is more class friendly than oblivion.

The original post.
Made by you.

Terribly sorry, but Im not even going to attempt to hurt my head at that block-text.
Use interpunctuation and spacing and we might approach something readable.

As is, as my brother the teacher would go with his red mark without reading, F.

Being a "godlike" good at everything character in previous games took a lot of time and planning. Very few people actually had the patience to do that, I would think.

All depends on how you choose to build your character. My "ranger" character had perks in 8 or 9 skills. Only ones I ran up to the top perk were Smithing and Blocking. Most other skills that I bothered perking only had around 5-6 perks in them - that was all I felt like I needed in them. The upper level perks (in skills like 1-handed and Light Armor) just didn't seem that interesting. Plus there was the fact that I only got my first skill to 100 (Smithing) at level 48. So most of the perks that required 70-100 skill, I couldn't have picked even if I wanted to.

Honestly, Skyrim's worked alot better for me than earlier games, in supporting my preferred "jack of many trades, master of none" style - in Oblivion, you could get every skill to full power (100 skill, all perks). Skyrim, you actually have to make some choices.... which makes me wonder why it's being claimed as dumbed-down and mainstreamed for ADHD-CoD players.

Not even close compared to morrowind. Stuff that you selected from the beginning became your lifeline. All your minor skills were basically useless and you had to abide by your class until you could improve upon the minor skills at higher levels.

The class system is still present. You just no longer select it at the beginning. This is pretty much an improvement upon the former system. If you actually need a definition of what a battlemage or crusader is in skills you can always find them on line or in the oblivion manual and just follow it putting your perks in said tree. The only thing they did is make custom class pretty much mandatory, classes in general however are still their.

And they didn't cut it out of the game. All the classes are still there. And in fact, they've made the system more flexible. In Oblivion, if you wanted to be both a warrior and a mage, you had to make that decision right at the beginning, if you wanted it to be equally effective. Otherwise, if you chose warrior and got to be a good warrior and then decided "Hey, I wanna be a mage too", well, you could do that - I did - but with the restrictive major and minor skills construct - which was integral to the idea of classes - you wouldn't be getting character levels very much by using mage skills.

With Oblivion you can get to level 10 as a mage, then decide "to hell with this, learning magic is hard" and put on some armor and go smash skulls with a mace. You still have all your mage skills and perks, without giving anything up regarding being a warrior.

Lol. I powered leveled my first playthough of morrowind. My character was more op than my powered leveled skyrim character. Minor skills were indeed useful because guess what, you could use them to their maximum efficiency unlike skills in skyrim you don't put points into.

Bullhockey.
You can pretend things are still in the game in your head, but I prefer that it actually acknowledges me in this.
In that, there are no classes in Skyrim because there are no classes in Skyrim.

I do not get to pick from a list, I do not get to choose and name myself and there is no class description for my character.
So you can 'its still in there' till the cows come home, but no, it is not.
Skyrim has no classes.

It doesnt have any flying martian robots either, unless you want to 'pretend' they are there.

You could still level magic to its full potential. It'd just take a bit longer than if you jump started it. In Skyrim, however, you are bound by Perks. If you regret some perks that you put in, ''too bad, live with it.''

That was beatuiful. The epitome of my feelings stated like a scholar.

But isn't the whole point of classes to be restricted? I'm completely lost with you. Your argument seems all over the place.

And that whole "write it down on paper and pretend it is in game" is not a substitute for a lacking game feature.

That's why they needed to refine it and not get rid of it. Im not saying to replicate exactly how it was in Oblivion, but see what went wrong and fix it so it works.

Well some people don't need labels for classes. If you miss the label it is understandable, I personally could care less about it. Now contemplate if they had a class name at the character creation and no selection. Would that not mean classes are in game now or do we actually need the class select as well?

All they did was remove the labels and pretty much force you into custom class. The system besides that is still their.

Correct.

No label = no class.
The game has no classes and does not support them.

You can pretend to have a class just as well as you can pretend youre a flying martian robot.
This, however, has nothing to do with the game in the end and everything with your own imagination.

A classless game has no classes. If there were any, we could pick them at creation and name them.
Simple.

(And I am more than fed up with this trend of 'its still in the game!' No. It is not. It was cut. I dont care that 'everything it did is still in the game', its not accessible to me in the way it was before now is it? Im talking open spells and apologetics talking about the Tower stone for instance. Im fed up with that sort of malarky and not gonna take it anymore.)

My real problem isn't that they did away with class selection, but that "perks" aren't really perks. They are nodes of a skill tree. They dictate the effectiveness of your skills far more than your actual experience with the skill, and they being limited undermines the "you are what you play" mentality. You are often forced to ignore skills, not because they aren't useful/fun/synergistic, but because you must spend all of your perks on boring, practical skills that only occupied about half the skill set offered by traditional classes. Just being a basic sword and board warrior eats up nearly all of your available perks without power leveling, where in say, oblivion, you could easily throw in 1-2 magical skills on top of that basic skillset with a custom class. And only time and attributes limited the effectiveness of additional skills.

Classes are essential to a roleplaying game.

lol @ the game telling you what class you will play being a "feature." Use your damn imagination. RPGs have been played and planned out on paper for many years. If you need to plan out a character in advance, then the developer has done a good job with the freedom they gave the player.

So all you need is a label? Don't really see the point here. I could make a custom class in oblivion and just put a . In the name. No description, no label. I than choose my major skills. Now with skyrim we are forced into the same custom class system except now they allow use to choose are majors as we go. We still will have skills we are forced in and skills we are not. Seems the same to me. The label is meaningless. Just as you can say their is no class I can say their is.

Planning a character out in advance in minutia is the epithome of RPG.

Though I suppose that does not sell to the adhd-kiddie crowd that must have everything nao!
I wish games were still made for people like me and they kept people like that on Doom or something instead of pandering them to sweet them of their money. Now we have threads that go: "im a min-maxer and the game is easy!"

Not happy about being in a tent.

You dont plan out anything in skyrim. Its all in a skill tree. You level on the spot with NO thinking. You use a warhammer, u level 2 handed.