I have started perk trees and have no idea what I was thinking at the time. They are pretty much wasted, even with planning. Thing is, I don't worry about it. My character hasn't run into anything he can't handle yet and now I try to make sure I only spend my perk points on things I know for a fact I want and use. I just don't see it as a big deal to lose some perk points because of a mistake. If you built out, for instance the entire perk tree for destruction and then decided, well, that was dumb, I don't even use destruction. I would have to agree, it was really dumb and you don't deserve to reallocate those perks.

The effort it'd take to add such a minor feature is trivial. It would not take away significant time or effort from other additions. The obsession with the RPG label is of no interest to me, I like RPGs but some people seem to have some strangely specific and personal view of what an RPG should be. You really can have a great RPG without levels and stats entirely, they just happen to be a common feature of RPGs. The slippery slope argument doesn't convince me either(as I explained in a previous post, perks were a step towards choices mattering more in the first place), nor does the common view that you're a hardcoe gamer and anyone who wants a convenient feature you don't want is a casual. And that's all it is, a convenient, optional feature. It doesn't make the game easier, it just saves some players a bit of headache to not have to worry about having to restart(a game that can be quite time consuming) if you make bad choices on your spec. I'd be with you if it were changing actual in-game choices such as taking sides in a war of factions, but that's just an entirely different matter.

I don't really see how replay would be killed by a respec. Becoming a Mage isn't just about perks, it's also about having a large pool of Magicka to draw from. Inversely, becoming a Warrior means having a larger pool of Health and Stamina. Assuming that they only created a mechanic that allowed you to gain all of your perk points back, I don't see how you could make a feasible Mage from a Warrior without also being able to respec your Health/Stamina/Magicka decisions. You'd be forced to rely upon Enchanting to provide you with the same spell output that a properly built Mage would be capable of. Granted you could argue that Fortify -insert school- Enchantments get around that problem, however I would argue that isn't as much a counterargument against respeccing as it is how overpowered those enchantments can be for non-Mage builds.

Ok you and me both plan our characters then, here is the thing this game has 80 perks to choose there is a lot of room for error on choosing your perks and remaking a new character because you hardly use one perk is a bit extreme. For example forgive me I am on the phone and I have a bunch of pages open on it: the perk that you run and it lands a critical hit I hardly use that perk but I use it on occasion I don't see a point in redoing ky entire character because of one.perk choice.

I am a professional programmer and while it might seem that adding that feature is trivial, I assure you it would be more difficult than you think. It would definitely take up resources and time to implement a convenience.

To be honest, this particular feature isn't that important to me, if they added it, I would avoid it and would live with the fact that I have more evidence that Bethesda is making a real effort to appease casual gamers, and believe me, the casual gamer is whom a feature like this would most be used by, or those who couldn't stop themselves. I certainly don't think it's worth getting into fights over. As for RPG, D&D pretty much invented it, so I tend to use that game as my benchmark and they definitely have levels and stats.

There is a war between RPG old timers and casual gamers, if you don't like the labels or how they are applied by people, fine, but there is a tug of war taking place, unfortunately the people on my side of the ditch are sliding towards their doom.

I must not have been clear then haha. It's not just one perk, I used my remaining points for my Assassin into Illusion, since I read that it was a good fit and it seemed like something that would fit my style. It wasn't just one point, it was pretty much the whole tree. Now, for my mage, I don't care so much that I have a lot invested into illusion because I'm a pure mage, so those points aren't going anywhere else. But for my stealth character, I wouldn't want to keep it on if I'm not using it, because I can place that elsewhere for a greater benefit.

That's really all I mean when I say I would like RESPEC. I understand how some people think it is a cop out, but it really isn't. No one is forced to use it and it helps out those players who just can't play another character. I went back to my mage character because I wanted to make him a werewolf. I realized it just wouldn't work, so I did as many people here do and created a new character. But I can't just do everything my other mage did all over again. I simply don't have the time. It's taking me a long time just to get to level 15 so I can exploit the Ohgma. I don't necessarily want to use the Oghma, I only use it at the bitter end when leveling takes forever. But I don't have the time to level genuinally before Dawngaurd comes out. I want to be able to be used to my build so I can play it with the new perk tree. It's not a cop out, its just an alternative for those who don't have the time.

On my first character, I took the very first perk in lockpicking. That small glowing orb taunted me every time I opened the perk menu for the rest of my game.

However, if a respec option were implemented, I think I would avoid it. For me it would kill the fun of making a totally new character, but I wouldn't complain if they added the feature for those who really want it. Sometimes I wonder how many other players have been annoyed by having wasted a point on that same lockpicking perk.

HAHA I did the same thing with the same perk. Then I realized it was wasted because I was able to get into any lock I encountered, eventually.

I could care less what another player does. But I would hope bethesda spends there time dealing with more "worth while" matters.

I just think it's hypocracy at its finest. People complaining that choices don't matter in skyrim, but then crying about reallocating perks.. eliminating the main excample of consequence in the game? It's just like the people who complain that skyrim has too much hand holding, but then start crying about the maps not having any roads... RIDICULOUS.

Can you people at least be consistent?

Also as a game programmer, I would like to agree that things are sometimes harder than they appear to be. However, a fundamentally good RPG stat system should be able to account for such things, and even an amateur like me has made RPG systems that would work this way.

I don't want the perks changing. I want to be able to get perk points through additional means, like during quests and completing challenges and so on. I do agree that you cannot suddenly change your warrior into a mage, as that just wouldn't happen unless you start a new character.

Do not want. As it stands, perks (and to a lesser extent, factions) are the only character-defining traits in Skyrim. If you remove the consequence of molding your character, you remove a core essential function of RPG's.

Kind of like the obsession other players (most of whom are either new or think this all started with Morrowind) have of telling Bethesda how to further ruin what's left of roleplaying in this series.

Go away and play something else.

Stop trying to further destroy TES.

I am not a professional programmer and while it might seem that adding that feature may be more difficult than I think, multiple amateur modders have already done it.

DO NOT refer to other players as "butthurt"
DO NOT refer to other players as "lazy"
DO NOT tell other players to go away and play something else
DO not be dismissive, snarky, sarcastic or otherwise rude towards people who disagree with your methods of playing video games.

All of the above is flaming. If it continues, warnings/suspensions will be issued.

This scared me and I'm not even posting in this thread.

I herd that all the way in the other forum...

EDIT : I don't oppose the implementation of this feature, because I can just as easily choose not to do it. I am a strong supporter of choice and options even if I am not in favor of the actual feature itself.

EDIT 2 : I'm sorry but that first line keeps putting me in tears. I know PS was very serious and people should head those words, but it's just too funny.

MOTHER : Jimmy! Stop calling your sister butt cheese!

As for me I actually don't care about getting more perks or being able to change perks (I don't think that it really fits in with the game) but I actually do like to experience, and do everything, and obtain everything, and explore everything I possibly can with a single character. I actually don't do any in depth role playing, or actively role play, and I don't create any extra identity beyond what's provided by the game. It's just not something that matters to me. But I still end up putting hundreds of hours.

Yeah, the only reason I play multiple characters is I think the game is more fun at lower levels so when my character gets too powerful, I start over. Often, my new character will be very similar to my old one in build. Replay value for me comes in the form of new stories and a new experience through modding rather than from a new build.

Precisely what I was thinking. Also it's a SINGLE player game if you want to be crazy overpowered then why not it would be great. Might even get a few more people to try out master difficulty. Even if you could relocate perks you don't have to. I think it would be nice instead of keeping the crazy enchanting skills I have so I can put 2 enchantments on things I could do it, for a few weapons and a set of armor, and then never use it again, and then put it in restoration or alteration or fill out the destruction I want.

Maybe they're different people...just sayin'

Oh I see, the illusion tree has 13 perks in it I fond its just better create your build and then test out certain aspects before you dive head first into a skill tree, but how on earth did you not know you did not want illusion after you almost max the skill? I don't understand that part at all, if you don't have the time there will be more time in the future for other play styles I am sure.

You make a lot of valid points in your original post that I agree with, but saying things like "stop whining" and "end of story" just makes you look like a jerk. It doesn't matter how valid your point is, being a jerk doesn't convince people to change their minds and all of the sudden agree with you.

The only reason I would do this ever is for one character. I got the perk where lightning turns foes to ash. With Lightning Storm, the ash piles end up on the ceiling or on walls or even in the middle of the air. It svcks if I have to get something off the body because I can't reach it.... I always regret picking that perk. I would even spend a perk point to get rid of it.

Actually, I know some people who have gotten into really BAD car accidents and had to learn how to walk, talk, and eat again. They had to learn how to do everything again. One for example had a Ph.D in Architecture. He couldn't remember how to do anything.

That is depressing....