RPG fans have been fighting for what they believe this series should be, probably from the start, but most definitely since Oblivion was announced. Problem is, we are the minority and RPG elements continue to shrink. There is a reason RPG fans of this series, who are on the forums, fight every RPG breaking element that is suggested in the series, big or small, because we want the game to work one way, while the majority (apparently), want it to work a different way. I'm sure many of us feel like our voice isn't heard when we continue to see more and more hand holding features such as the compass, less options such as weapons, armor and more glitz like kill cams. When you see something you love slipping further and further away, you fight for it. Ultimately however, as long as the casual gamers hold the lion share of the profit, Bethesda and other gaming software companies will cater to them.

Why are you applying real life scenarios to a game which features frequent use of magic? A re-spec can be easily explained through the use of a magical tome, or something to that effect. It can be tied to a quest if you so desired. Implementing something that like that would be easy, and the best part is that it would be completely OPTIONAL. If you think it will ruin the element of choice and consequence for you, then don't use it. How can it be simpler than that? Now, if the developers see that a re-spec will ruin the style of gameplay they want for their game, then I will respect their decision to not include it in the game. However, please don't tell them how a re-spec is illogical or that it removes choice and consequence, when it can be a decision left entirely to the player.

It will effect my game by adding a useless feature that a tiny minority is asking for when that time is better spent on fixing bugs and focusing on future dlc.

I don't have any experience coding, but it's pretty obvious you're more clueless than me. Such a change would take much longer than a day. It's not just a matter of punching in a few lines of code and calling it done...

Someone else respecing doesn't effect me, but the option being there does. Allow me to provide an example:

Bethesda decides to add in the ability for a character to fly. All characters can do this just by pressing a button, and they can do so at level 1. But wait! If you don't like it, just don't use it! Hurr durr. Just the fact that the ability is there can be an annoyance. This applies to respecing. I don't want to have the ability to respec in the game. If it was added to the game, it would bother me, because something so silly shouldn't be in the game! Which brings me to my next point...

Respecing is directly against Bethesda's game ideal. They want you to "be whoever you want", but they don't want you to do that with one character. Skyrim is specifically designed to be played by more than one character- yes, almost everything can be done with one, but different playstyles are tailored to certain parts of the game. The perk system is actually a testament to that. Bethesda wants people to have more than one character, and having a respec option would just go against that. Respecing doesn't match Skyrim's game design.


I have an honest question: WHY do you need to respec? Can't you just start a new character, as that's the game's intended "respecing" system already.

I used to feel the same way, but realised the genre was in decline just before/when Oblivion released, where there is tons of $$$ to be made, they will make it, even if it means sacrificing those who got them where they are today. It's like fighting against a tidalwave of chainsaws, no chance, but i know that if Bethesda continue down this path, it will eventually lead to their own demise in the end.

Exactly.

How exactly will it effect your game though? You still have yet to answer it.

P.S: They continue to fix bugs while adding content, adding a perk respec NPC could be included in said content, your argument is invalid.

I just told you why i have no use for it and anyone who isn't lazy doesn't either.

Understandable, but flying is a completely different spectrum lmao, perk respecing would not be as simple as 'pushing a button and wheeeee', if they implimented it correctly they could include a great way to spend Septims in the game, if not add more quests into the game based around it, with each perk reset you need more Septims, jewels, maybe certain loot? Who knows, the possibilities are endless.

While i get what you are saying and agree to an extent, Bethesda does not want you to "be whoever you want", for example i made a knight type character who did not want to touch magic in any way, shape or form, yet i was forced to join the College of Winterhold, forced to be come a Werewolf to continue on with the Companions questline and forced to join the Thieves guild for the No Stone Unturned quest. At first i thought the perk system would create replayability, but once you have done the majority of things on one character, doing them again... And again.... And again on new characters.... Kinda kills replayability... I lose interest in the world, grow tierd of it faster because i have seen it and done it, grow tierd of the same NPCS saying the same things and forcing the same quests down my throat... Yeah... At first i thought there was replayability, then i made a thief a knight and grew tierd of them quite fast...

I did not ask you if you have a use for it, i asked "How does someone else respecing their perks **effect your game**."

I hate to say this, but /facepalm, not sure if trolling, or just really stupid.

That one feature would not have to affect my game because it's a choice, however it would just further show the disregard toward gamers who want RPG elements and RPG type game play. Those of us who enjoy games like D&D who roll our characters and write background stories and motivations, etc. Those people don't allow their character to suddenly stop being a PC who is strong with weapons and turn him into something else because it suits their mood for the day.

Adding a feature like that does nothing to improve the game, only rewards gamers who don't take the time to plan out what kind of PC they want to play. I don't think that should be rewarded personally. If they are going to call TES a role playing series, then reallocation of perks is not a feature that fits in nicely with traditional role playing.

^ This. Lazy people don't need to be catered to

Understandable... But like you said it's a choice, their choice to do so would not effect your game, but i digress.
I felt the same way and was one of those people who was quite upset about stat points, spell creation, certain spells and skills being removed ect, i fought against it as well, but in all honesty there is no point. Morrowind was my fav TES game, but look at how much it has changed... Those times are over, we live in an era where $$$ = everything, TES started catering to a wider audience with Oblivion and had slight hints of it in Morrowind, Skyrim is just another step forward for them, and since they made more money with this step they will continue on with it... Gaming has taken a dark turn, and i can't see it changing any time soon.... If ever again.

Your responses are lazy, what does that make you?

And you seem to have a reading problem as i just said why it would effect my game if a re-spec option is introduced to the game not only will i have no say in the matter to opt out to not have such a stupid thing in my game but it will possible be in future tes games i buy so slow lazy people can have there pathetic god-mod fix.

Seriously, not sure of trolling or blind. I don't like to pull the troll card, but honestly... If you justify that as an answer, especially when it did not even answer my honest logical question, then it just goes to show your mindset... Stay in school kids.

Yes becuase some doesn't agree you there a troll? yeah i think where pretty much done here.

I guess I haven't given up yet and still fight for what I want in the series, but yeah, it's pretty much over. We will never again enjoy an RPG rich (compared to what we have now) environment as Morrowind. If we could have a new Morrowind with today's graphics and better combat system... that would be awesome, but that truly is a visit to dream land.

Oh and I don't really hate everything that is introduced that isn't really traditional RPG, the kill cam is kinda cool, though over used, and I prefer this combat to MW, but the day they decided on the magic compass and stopped giving us directions on how to find things, was a dark day indeed.

BINGO! exactly right. Pointless feature that they would add when quests could be fixed and future content could be worked on.

Looking at what such a devastating additional feature makes possible-


-The one most posters against respecs seem terribly worried about: Players bored with their spec can change it instead of making a new character. END OF THE WORLD?!?!

-Players who find out a perk is weaker or less fun, or whatever, than they thought it would be can move that perk to something better instead of having to live with or start over when they don't really want to. Oh god, the horrible hand holding!

-A few players use it to make overpowered gear and then spec out of crafting. An obvious exploit, admittedly I'm not a fan of exploits but my main issue is when the line between exploit and overpowered or poorly designed is blurred. That's not the case here.

-Some players will probably mess around with different specs to see what works best for them in practice instead of just going by the often vague and/or incorrect perk descriptions in game or having to look each perk up.

-Players who don't want to ever change their spec in any way, ever, can ignore it and nothing about their game changes whatsoever. They can still restart the game every time they want to change their perks, their perk choices still matter. And really, for all players other than those who actually respec frequently or exploit, perk choices would still matter since you can only have a limited number. Admittedly at high levels they matter less and less since you eventually get tons of them, but that's not a respec issue.



I have to say I just don't understand the problem.



This is bad idea - using a skill does not mean you want your perks spent on it. With a limited number of perks, we'd end up being incredibly constrained if we actually wanted to build a character. It'd be similar to how to maximize ability multipliers you'd major skills you won't use so you can control your levels in Oblivion. Except in this case you'd have to simply avoid using some skills altogether.

@Odd Hermit
You keep saying things like.. "ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!" and similar comments to attempt to show everyone how silly and trivial our disagreement is over allowing a reallocation feature, but can't the same be applied to someone who didn't take the time to think out what perks would be best for his or her character? Is it really the end of the world that they had started building up the smithing perk tree only to realize they now wish they'd of put it towards the enchantment perk tree? Couldn't that predicament be avoided with just a little forethought?

If it is added, it needs to be a very difficult and inconvenient thing. As an idea:

The ability to remove perks is limited to one single npc in the game, in a location that cannot be fast traveled to, or waited at. This npc does dangerous tampering with your soul and memories.

It must cost vast sums of money and some form of rare material component, along with unspent dragon souls, say maybe 15 of them at a time.

Limited to removing and allowing reallocation of no more than 3 perks at a time.

Put some sort of debilitation on the player for a time, like reducing health, stamina, and magicka by 1/3, reducing armor and weapon damage by 30%, and reducing all incoming healing effects by 60% for an in-game month.

Make the debilitation stack, so that you are discouraged from doing it without waiting out the effects.

It's not really matter if this is added officially that.it will effect anybody's game that is a ridiculous argument.

It's more of matter of living with what you choose for your character, odd how people wanted the Jack of all trades formula gone because they utterly lack self control and now there is a perk system that forces you to specialize in something and now there are those that want to respec their characters, lol at not wanting to be a jack of all trades and now suddenly want to be one.

-The perk descriptions in game are vague and often inaccurate. Hard to even plan if you don't know what you're getting. And some people just want to start the game without careful planning. I'm sure on release there were very few players carefully planning their builds, they were jumping into the game and playing.

-It can take a fair amount of time getting a character to mid to high levels, and doing a bunch of things you've already recently done is not enjoyable or challenging. Not everyone has a ton of time to play, and sometimes new players can botch a spec pretty badly - especially if they're the sort to jump in before planning.

Personally, I have tons of spare time and I carefully plan my builds. I'm still all for respec options, because I know not everyone is like me. And even if I didn't want to use them, it'd make literally no difference if the option was there. I did occasionally console out bad perks when I was playing Skyrim though.

Being against respec really does makes it seem like you want other players to suffer through repetition for no reason but to spite them, as the feature makes no change to the actual game and would be completely optional.



It was a master of all trades issue, and it had nothing to do with self control. You couldn't actually stop a character from gaining skills, at least without mods. They raised via use. Respec has nothing to do with being a master of all trades either, since you'd still only have a limited number of perks active at one time. You'd have to actually add perks if you truly wanted a maxed-out Oblivion-style character. Which is still possible via mods. Somehow though, I seem to be able to resist rushing out to DL mods to max all perks, while still supporting a respec option for consoles.

I would like to think that if halfway down the road, I realize "Hey, Illusion svcks!" I don't have to play another 50 hours to see how another school of magic plays. I could have all the forethought in the world and it doesn't matter. Until you get to that point, you don't know if you will like the perk. I know I plan everything out before I make a character. I recently got my Sneak assassin up to lvl 81, I'll be honest, the last 10 levels I used the oghma glitch. I also decided to become a Vampire for the upcoming DLC. Little did I know about the Necromage perk glitch. I would LOVE to have that perk, but alas, I would have to play another 130 hours just to try that. Is that really necessary when the RESPEC option can take under 20 minutes? I know it sounds "lazy" but I have a job, I also go to school (break now, but that's besides the point).

You don't necessarily become a jack of all trades. I would use it to switch around schools of magic. I know I've put into illusion and really dislike it. As I said before, I planned on using it, but had no idea whether or not it would fit my playstyle. Can you really blame me?

Well you were doing good up until this last comment. I don't want it in there for a few reasons, one, I'd rather Bethesda put their time and efforts elsewhere such as deeper quest lines or more factions, etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with spite. I do however want people to realize it's supposed to be an RPG which means they should think about what they are doing and the more we get away from that, the more we get away from an RPG game. Do I think perk reallocation means Skyrim or a future title is no longer an RPG? No, but it's just one more piece in the puzzle where my gaming style and wishes are replaced by things that intrigue a casual gamer, those you mention who don't spend a lot of time gaming.

Well it's a video game....

That's the thing tho, plan out your character before you actually make your character. I actually set down and spec out 80 perks with this game with a new character even if I don't max out that character. Why would you want to change your magic around anyways if you want all schools get them stick with the schools that suit your build. If you want to swap around skill sets that is crossing over to Jack of all trades characters. That is what people wanted avoid now they don't have.it they want it back. What we need is attributes, race perks, and perks related to the skill.

Believe me when I say this, I do sit down and plan out my builds before I make them. But as I said before, if this is the first time you are playing, you can't actually know ahead of time what will suit your style until you unlock that perk and use it. I unlocked Illusion because it seemed like it would fit. I rarely use it and when I do, its only to say "I didn't waste this perk, so I need to use it". I planned quite a lot, and still was not happy. I shouldn't have to redo the entire character just because I planned it out like you said. I'm not about to spend another 100+ hours on the same character with slight differences.