Again you like so many of the [censored] detractors out there, answer this question, is there anything that Skyrim has done good? Answering no to this question and anybody answering no to this question makes them a troll pure and simple. Why is that the case because Skyrim has made improvements on the game formula not deimprovements, thank god Beth doesn't listen to the hardcoe Elitiests or else we would still be living in the Stoneage in terms of what Skyrim would be doing and it only would've sold 2 million instead of the 8-9 million that it currently has.

Again you like so many of the [censored] detractors out there, answer this question, is there anything that Skyrim has done good? Answering no to this question and anybody answering no to this question makes them a troll pure and simple. Why is that the case because Skyrim has made improvements on the game formula not deimprovements, thank god Beth doesn't listen to the hardcoe Elitiests or else we would still be living in the Stoneage in terms of what Skyrim would be doing and it only would've sold 2 million instead of the 8-9 million that it currently has.

Skyrim did some things right.

The new character skills system is an upgrade that was needed...but it need tuning.

The stroylines are significantly deeper then Oblivion's were.

Combat and Stealth have improved again.

There is more but I don't want ot list them right now.



The thing is, dicussing things we liked about a game isn't very useful......it changes nothing. Discussing what we didn't like gives the developers an idea on what ot change in DLC or the next game.

Skyrim did some things right.

The new character skills system is an upgrade that was needed...but it need tuning.

The stroylines are significantly deeper then Oblivion's were.

Combat and Stealth have improved again.

There is more but I don't want ot list them right now.



The thing is, dicussing things we liked about a game isn't very useful......it changes nothing. Discussing what we didn't like gives the developers an idea on what ot change in DLC or the next game.

But it is important to acknoweledge them. And have the complaining be more than "DF/MW/OB did it better" without any arguments.

But discussing what we do like makes sure that it goes into the next game. Everybody likes Daedric Armor if we didn't say that, Beth could take that at face value that they should change the armor or I'll give a better example Spears, if everybody would've loved Spears then it still would've been in the game. Listing the Negatives is nice but we shouldn't just have the negatives removed, we also need the postitives so that Beth knows what to keep for the next game.

Again you like so many of the [censored] detractors out there, answer this question, is there anything that Skyrim has done good? Answering no to this question and anybody answering no to this question makes them a troll pure and simple. Why is that the case because Skyrim has made improvements on the game formula not deimprovements, thank god Beth doesn't listen to the hardcoe Elitiests or else we would still be living in the Stoneage in terms of what Skyrim would be doing and it only would've sold 2 million instead of the 8-9 million that it currently has.

Well, in my year on this forum I have found that it is mostly the MW fan generation who complain the most and refuse to see more than one side of the coin, but as you point out the nostalgia factor does not aply to this. I believe it might be personal preference, unrelated to the game being "dumbed down" or not.

No, previous games had this problem, Skyrim has it even worse.

Without the class system it basically means your character has been doing absolutely NOTHING before he/she got off the cart in Skyrim....everyone starts exactly the same. All of a sudden (at around age 25) your character suddenly starts doing something with their life. At least in previous games the class system gave you an initial boost to represent what you had done previous in your life.



Agree ... mostly.

The only thing is the idea of playing a pure Mage, Destruction for damage, Alteration for protection, Conjuration for support can no longer be played properly. COnsidering this used to be a very popular playstyle it is very disappointing that we cannot do it anymore.



You shouldn't pick on Morrowind for being static.....it was made 12+ years ago and at the time AI was still very basic.

Quests however have always been a bit dull in the World of Elder Scrolls, but the radiant quests are the dullest quests since the days of Daggerfall's quests.




Repairing was a part of the game that was on the way out....but it's didn't need removal...just revamping. Instead of a manual click-repair system system they could have replaced it with something more automatic.....but that would be hard easier just to remove it.

Spellmaking though was very important....it allowed Mage characters to fine tune spells for each character....so you could get the most out of your magicka. It also allowed you to put multiple spells together for faster casting.....in SKyrim I really dont want to have to cast Mage Armor, then switch to conjuration for a summon, then back to a ward in one hand and a destruction in the other......then repeat every 60 secs while going through a dungeon...BAD BAD DESIGN.



Exsactly.....if they have been problems in previous games they knew what to fix....but they still didn't and instead removed features in the name of 'STREAMLINING'.


I expect you're a bit of a Skyrim fan, and that's fine, but to vetern Elder Scroll fans that go back to Morrowind, Skyrim promised so much more then it actually delivered....and we have a right to express our disappointment.

I like Skyrim. I even said as much in my post. Let me ask you this: What is the opposite of someone whom you described in this post? Would they not be as elitist and stubborn as those you talk of? Go back and reread your OP and think real hard about that before you start throwing stones...

I have no problem with you likeing Skyrim, I even said it in my post. If you can't say yes to anything about the question that Skyrim has improved on some features then I would have to put you in that catagory, since you say that you like Skyrim I wouldn't put you in that catagory. A lot of people who liked the past games probably love Skyrim, I loved Oblivion and I really like Skyrim a lot.

That's probably because Morrowind was the best of the series in their estimation. So when an inferior sequel (obviously subjective) is released they're going to complain. A typical TES fan presumably wants more TES with each new game that is released? There's a legitimate argument that says we're getting less of the things that are important to TES fans, and more of the things that appeal to a different demographic.

Many things about the last two games seem like steps backwards so it's difficult not to search for scapegoats in 'designed for console' features and 'games being designed for a generation with lower attention spans' as the reason for this. Whether you consider the two previous statements as 'bs' or 'science fact!!' is besides the point, everyone who has played the previous titles should be able to see that many things about TES are getting simpler/streamlined/whatever you want to call it.

Skyrim is the better game than Oblivion, that's pretty unanimous I think. Despite this, there were aspects of Oblivion that were better off left in or built upon, not just plain removed...

I agree with the OP. Each TES game should be taken at its own value, not compared to a follow-on game 3-5 years later. These games require changes, otherwise people will complain that "it's just an expansion," and don't understand why they should pay 60.00 for it. Also, peoples' taste change, and most require something new/fresh.

A few good examples of dumbing down a game was committed by Blizzard several years ago in World of Warcraft:

1. Protection Paladins - these guys were tanks that took the beatings from the bosses while the rest of the team attacked the boss from distance (hunter) or up close in case of melee, while healers kept everyone's health up to par. It was very important for tanks to have a certain amount of defense. Defense requirements had been established, and tanks knew they needed to meet these requirements when they reached level 80. Both armor and weapons had certain defensive stats that increased your defensive level, and it was your responsibility to go out and get this gear. Both 5-men teams and raids would rarely let you tank if you didn't meet that level. So, out of nowhere, one day Blizzard announced that they're going to do away with this part of the game. Those of us who took the game serious, looked upon this as dumbing down - there were a certain number of players who constantly complained about having to meet this level, and I guess Blizzard thought to make it easier and attract more players to the game, so we'll eliminate that requirement.

2. You get a quest, to go to A and find B, which is somewhere in that general area. Again, players must have complained that they spent a lot of time looking for B, because "general area" was not descriptive enough for them. So, now Blizzard made quest objectives that are surrounded by nice "sparkly" little stars. Might as well hang a large sign with an arrow pointing saying "look here, I'm here."

Now, those things to me are dumbing down a game. Interestingly, when I started playing Rift last year, Trion did the exact same thing, Anything to speed up the game, and remove parts of the game that are orginally designed to make you think and show some initiative.

I don't know if any other games do similar things today, having only played WoW/Rift in the past 6 years, but I wouldn't be surprised if the dumbing down spreads to other game publishers/makers.

What's interesting is that one of WoWs forerunners, EQ 2, is now releasing it's 18th expansion - it tells me that there is a large population of players that prefer to play harder games that doesn't require the game to hold your hand and lead you around.

But, I guess the dumbing down caters to a certain player base - not necessarily TES - but MMOs and other genres. I think, as EQ 2 shows, that's not necessarily a good thing.

The game recognizes it for sure, when I attack someone in the game with these perks the game recognizes it by showing me how the enemies are decapitated. It is true recognition by every standard. Regarding this not having an effect if I use another weapon, that makes perfect sense to me, a very strong football player is not by default a great weightlifter or a good javelin thrower since they all require completely different use of muscle strength and training to be accomplished in. No speed or agility? Yet again, I have descriptive traits that tells me that my character is agile and fast; "deft movement", "agile defender", "light foot", "dual flurry", "lightning reflexes" and all of it is reflected in the game.

Yeah. Mods.

We're talking physical, raw strength here. First of all, football players (American football, I should say) DO weightlift in order to become better football players. The muscles associated with the task of throwing a football can be exercised in weightlifting, which also means a football player is generally a better weightlifter than a non-football player. I don't expect the game to know the strength of my individual muscles, just my average, overall strength. A longswordsman can still use his strong muscles to fight with a claymore- except in Skyrim. Second, about the javelin throwing- we are still talking about basic strength. Skill has nothing to do with it. I'm not talking about fighting techniques differing from weapon to weapon. Doing a simple overhead slashing attack has nothing to do with skill, just strength. A stronger person can swing the weapon harder than a weaker person, thereby doing more damage. In this sense, strength should carry over to all melee skills as it has in the past, but this is not the case anymore.

And please, using descriptive traits doesn't reflect attributes as well as attributes did by themselves.

-Deft movement- I'll give this one to you. The bonus accurately portrays agility
-Agile defender- only increases light armor rating. Agility is about not being hit, it has nothing to do with absorbing damage.
-Light foot- I'll give this one to you as well. Not setting of pressure plates is an agility related skill.
-Dual flurry- I'll also give this to you. Attacking faster with weapons accurately portrays agility. However, this only applies to dual wielded weapons ONLY, and nothing else. The second you drop your second weapon, you are instantly less agile in game terms.
-Lightning reflexes- (quick reflexes, I assume) slow mo when blocking a power attack. Could accurately portray agility.

Yes, those perks with the exception of one can be used to show a character's agility, I admit (although dual flurry doesn't make much sense realistically).

But I must ask again- how can I increase my speed? How can I increase my jump height? The answer is that I can't. I could in Morrowind, I could in Oblivion, I can't in Skyrim.

but to vetern Elder Scroll fans that go back to Morrowind, Skyrim promised so much more then it actually delivered....and we have a right to express our disappointment.

I'm a veteran Morrowind fan, and am not disappointed in the slightest with Skyrim - it is great fun to play - you still have your right to express dissappointment, but the above makes it look like you're saying all veteran Morrowind fans know best... clearly, lots of those veterans are happy with Skyrim too

The game is dumbed down. Its just a fact:

- No Spell making.
- Enchanting has less freedom.
- Lesser Skills.
- Lesser armor slots
- Lesser daedra variation.
- Lesser summon spells
- Shorter guild stories.

This some huge rpg aspects that has been axed since Morrowind.

If this isn't dumbing down of a series then what is?

And whoever don't realize this are fan boys or stupid.

um...it is dumbed down, spell effects are missing from daggerfall which means it has been dumbed down from daggerfall (i would say morrowind but im not a morrowind fan-boy and daggerfall gave a much better example), and skills have been removed from daggerfall, thus dumbing down the series. any single aspect that is removed is dumbing down unless they replace it with something of equal depth, and skyrim has not replaced even simple skills/mechanics/attributes from oblivion