Kotor

Heroes II.

/thread

I didn't say anything about walking away mid convo?? I'm confused.. D&D you can do this also, yes.. I have no problems with that. RPG's you can do that. Good. Established that. Thanks.

Sure, but if you're good enough at gaming with a few perks you can start to dominate anyone. If you svck, fully perked you still svck.

Yes I have played it. I have had the gards say 'your that new companian right? what do you do fetch the mead?' After completing most of the companians aswell as the main quest. You'd think that a guard wouldnt be like 'ooo that dude is dragonborn and saved the world, I'll give him [censored] for being a new companian'. Not to mention, they notice my Khajiit's furry ears AFTER becoming a warewolf. Oh sweet I have furry ears. You noticed? Thanks....... .... ...

I've named my example earlier. Not many people knows about WoD I guess.

KoToR is based on D&D mechanics also. The game engine even has remnants from NWN. Or are you being ironic?

This topic is the stupidest topic I've ever seen on a forum and therefore it does not even deserve my opinion

Err, well I could name some of the Non Western RPG's I liked but I never really got into them. I just play BG2 or MW over again if I feel like playing an RPG. I was hoping for something else to add to the collection.. but... mm

And yeh KOTOR was fun also.. & yes it is based on Wizards product, the Starwars P&P RPG. I think that was based on virsion 3.0 D&D.

It is an RPG, but you need to put in some effort as well if you are going to gain the most from it. Use your own imagination, define your character, make decisions. You don't need to be pigeon-holed by any of the quests, you can decide they do not suit your character and just ignore them. I did start the Thieves Guild one but I didn't like what they were asking me to do so I just said no and abandoned it.
If you really want to enjoy an open game you need to put some effort into it. It is full of potential if you just use it.

Also if you don't like the map markers (I don't), then just uncheck them in your journal. That's very simple to do. I will glance at the map with the marker once to get a general sense of where I'm supposed to be going then turn it off and explore on my own.

Imagine our disappointment

I am 21 years old. I want to read the in game books. I want to read quests that has dialogue with depth and I could give two [censored] about voice acting, use text! It helps more imo anyways. Quests given through dialogue have almost zero information in them that can help you reach the objective. The journal does not even update with useful information and you cannot even look back throught the various stages of the quests. They knew that. That is one reason for the floating questmarkers and the new clairvoyance spell. They did put voice acting in and guess what? It svcks. Slightly better than Oblivion because now there is more variety. But all the major questlines outside of the main one are for the most part shallow and very short. Still a very fun game, but it certainly does not make that much of an impression on me. So glad I got this for PC. Modding community is going to make this game soooo much better. Only lore friendly mods though of course.

Neither allows for character development, only increase in stats. If increasing stats is your sole consideration on character development, you aren't roleplaying, and you aren't playing a roleplaying game.

The key consideration is the ability to create a wholly unique character, and experience a world from that characters point of view, and to make decisions based upon this. For this sole reason, neither of your above examples can never be considered close to an RPG, although they do take some inspiration from RPG.

For example, I would actually consider the Sims to be closer to an RPG than either of your examples.

The problem is that Skyrim mirrors a Live Action Roleplay more than Tabletop, Morrowind was the final Pen and Paper styled RPG. The development of graphics and immediate visual gratification means that modern RPG's like Skyrim evolve naturally to more closely resemble Live Action Roleplay instead of Pen and Paper RPG.
This involves simplification of game rules, and a greater emphasis on the PLAYER to act, and feel as their proposed character.

Naturally, people get let behind when games evolve, for better or worse (I'm not passing comment on this, its a different topic). But LARP style RPG is a very natural evolution for cRPG's as the visual natures improves.
LARP is not less of a roleplaying game than PnP, its just simpler, different, but the core concept is actually stronger about realistically portraying a character who is not entirely defined merely by numbers on a piece of paper.

EDIT: Just to sidetrack a bit. I'm not keen on the LARP stylism of Skyrim over more Pen and Paper ideals, although I adore the game, however, I think its a very important evolutionary step for cRPG's to step away from the traditional RPG, and stop trying to copy them, and instead evolve into their own entity, taking the complexity of pen and paper, and the freedom to express yourself in LARP.. I look forward to this.. thats my hope for the future.

MW? And yeah KoToR is a pretty modified D&D 3.0.

Skyrim isn't an RPG because you touched yourself at night... Thanks for ruining it for everyone

Shoot, I'm still raging about his whole "Only the skill of the player matters" thing. I want to make a post in-character chewing him out for it. >_>

Yeah, I like to do that. If I could I would removed the compas also. I do role play a character, I just find it much less rewarding than if it were to feel real...


Morrowind haha. Sounds close to Modern Warefare though I guess.


Um well in CoD Modern Warfare you gain levels and access new types of weapons (kinda like... new spells....) but its more about your reaction time and aim than the weapon. I just feel that Skyrim is moving more towards this and away from your character making the spell more powerful... Gone are the days where attributes would help to modify spell power/ Sword power etc..







Anyway, was trying to get my point across not start a flame war. But I guess I made it too blatant for some people and I apoligise. I believe the way I do and that wont change, other people are the same.

Yea but all of you crybabies don't want D+D mechanics. You want to play Call of Duty: Skyrim where you press r and you kill something. The concept of mathematical formulas factoring in your characters attributes (sorry to mention attributes I know actually having things other than magika, stamina, and health is a very hard thing for Skyrim players to wrap their brain around), your weapon, and your opponents armor and active affects to determine if you hit him and how much damage you do is much too complicated.

Kotor was made 8 years ago and the game's story, the effect your decisions have on the story, and the relationship with npcs in your party shreds skyrim to tears. Hell, Morrowind was made 9 years ago and that game has more rpg feeling to it in it's first 5 minutes than Skyrim has the entire game.

People prefer Transformers to the Godfather, bieber to The Beatles, dubstep to jazz, Skyrim to Morrownd, twilight to Crime and Punishment. That's fine; I'll pray for them.

Since the quintessential RPG is DnD to me and just about everyone here it's going to be interesting when these kids who grew up with WoW are the ones making games.

I'm going to lose sleep tonight over that thought.

KoToR is also very linear. I wasn't saying KoToR was a bad game at all. Skyrim is a great game and so is KoToR, but they're in different genres. Skyrim plays in a pretty similar vein to Oblivion, so if you played Oblivion you really shouldn't have had any complaints over how SKyrim plays. And I happen to like D&D based games, I even said I wanted a new Forgotten Realms game in my first post in this thread.

Skyrim is different. Oblivion is different. They don't have some core RPG concepts, but they're still great games for different reasons.

I agree the main quest throws you into the action pretty quick. I see that as lip service to the console crowd. Oblivion did that too. Morrowind didn't. The simple solution is to avoid the MQ ( had to do a reload after the first dragon), and do want you want; miscellaneous quests, guilds (okay had to reload to avoid the Companions questline too) and exploration. How you deal with the world, the locals and which jobs you take on, that's the role-playing.

Markers can be turned off.


So gaining levels is what defines an RPG? Sweet! I'm going to join the military and grind up to "General"!

Did you play arena? Think about it.

Nop never played Arena...


I didn't play oblivion.. didn't like it =(. I want morrowind 2!!! Hahah. Man I feel like an idiot =)!

I agree with Fat V about KOTOR tearing Skyrim to shreads in some respects.. I just wish Bioware and Bethesda put their heads together and made Knights of the Elder Scrolls or something. Strictly for oldschool players edition.




Not even going to start the markers arguement. Its done.
If you had read even the first few paragraphs of my main point you would see that isn't what I am saying at all, in fact quite the opposite.. oh wait I only wrote a few paragraphs.. couldnt you read it??



May do this after I take a break from skyrim =)!

Ahem.
Another reason for it not being a roleplaying game: I can't choose to go the other way and be the villain and I can't choose anything inbetween, like greed, or power over the people while still helping them.

(But you're making it sound like any and all RPG's should end up with us being heroes, to which I full heartly disagree.)

[quote name='Echonite' timestamp='1323425388' post='19706724']
Markers can be turned off.



It doesn't matter. Unknown places will still magically show up on your map. When you kill an essential character he will never die. The game will still autosave with 3 different files every 5 minutes and when you die you will always be immediately reloaded. Quest items will be at the very end of a brightly lit dungeon-- i remember quest items in Morrowind that were on the ground in the middle of no where. When you're a vampire you can walk around the city like it's nothing-- in Morrowind it was a huge decision to become a vampire-- it opened up new quests but you were attacked on sight. Your hand will still be held.