CoD... Skyrim... I am both appalled and insulted. So to you, the dovakhiin is but a 9 year old screaming obscenities everywhere he goes? I hate to break this to you, but skyrim isn't becoming more CoD - the truth is that CoD is becoming more Skyrim. It's just the opposite - you see, the thing about RPGs is that they have so much going for them that other genres try to adopt it. Experience points were nowhere to be found in the days of Goldeneye, Doom, and Wolfenstien. No, just the opposite of your claim is true - everyone is adopting the aspects of RPGs. Improving your skills and your gear is not a trend started by adventure, but by roleplaying. It is not something popularized by FPSes like Call of Duty but by RPGs like Final Fantasy. These are things which found their origin in RPGs.

Just when DID you get into gaming, if you think this is a CoD style thing? How sad, how... pathetic. I've been a gamer since the days of the NES. I grew up watching gaming grow and evolve. How RPGs became king, and how the fell from grace. How western and eastern styles grew apart in such different ways. How other genres looked upon RPGs with reverence and adopted many of the things RPGs did right, and with darned good reason.

Just how long have you been a gamer, if you think CoD is the standard here? What, do you thing WoW was the first MMO? Have you never played a text based game? Do you know what MUD means, or the origin of the term Mob? Are you seriously saying that Skyrim is knocking off CoD, when to anyone who knows ANYTHING about the history of gaming, the opposite will clearly be the case - that CoD is using aspects of RPGs?

I went from anger to pity in the course of writing this post. Honestly, I feel sorry for you, for having such a strange childhood robbed of a proper background in gaming. Son, you need to be learned.

Exactly...... When did people have to even make this complicated. Now it is CRPG/ARPG/ Blah Blah Blah..... An RPG is an RPG IMO and I play the game that way I want to, as an RPG!!!

It doesn't necessarily have to be a hero (though in most PC and console games you will still be a hero regardless of attitude) - not in Pen 'n' Paper rpgs at lest.


Go on.


Hmmm, I'm still not sure that is relevant to the question of "what is an RPG" - they are themes, narrative devices etc, they don't have to be defining traits. But I am nitpicking, go on.


Indeed.


Ok, I'm not following, you gave your take on what an RPG is, and Skyrim has every single one but not, by your reckoning, dominating enough to classify it as an RPG?

Sure that bird over there looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, but I reckon it is slightly the wrong colour to be duck. Ergo it is not, in fact, a true duck.


True, but that is about play style. You can do that with plenty of RPGs - maybe not as easily, but still.


Extrapolate, please.


True, the world isn't as reactive as one would hope of such a modern game, but again - hardly a limit to Skyrim, plenty of RPGs don't have sufficient development to create a lot of changes depending on actions. Many, if you are lucky, have some dialogue here and there or they script automatic changes as you progress past certain points in the main plot.

If one of the reasons you want to exile Skyrim from RPG island is because all its NPC aren't buying you mead after you kill some bandits, well it better be a big boat because a lot of RPGs are like that.

And the feel like wasting your time bit is subjective. I haven't felt like that.


Perhaps it is style of game. RPGs are probably my favorite genre of games. I have played a lot of them, and many don't live up to my RPG hopes and dreams - TES is one of the best series (in terms of PC games) (I enjoyed Icewind Dale and the first Neverwinter enough, but after playing Baldur's Gate I & II, Morrowind and Deus Ex I can't express how terribly light they felt and how little impact they had - but they were still RPGs).

I haven't found it difficult to role play in Skyrim.

I do wish there were more quests and more options existed in those quests etc, but I don't feel like I am not playing an RPG because they aren't there yet.


Well if you want to exclude Skyrim from the genre of RPGs based on this then it is going to be a pretty spartan genre when we cull all the others as well, since Skyrim is significantly above any number of other games in RPG-ness (well start purging JRPGs then...).

You need a lot of imagination and emotional commitment in your character to have a RPG experience in Skyrim it 's possible but hard .

It's mainly an excellent action adventure game with elements of RPG (crafting system , economy , levelling system etc )

I hope that in the next Elder scrolls, they actually innovate and expand the RPG part , like the overall quest interest and lay out ( Skyrim needed more quest like the Forsworn conspiracy , although discovering that the largest prison of Tamriel had only 6 guys inside was pretty lame ) , NPC interactions , consequence of the quests and choices on the world , length and depth of guilds , size of the cities , amount of NPC and population , non violent quests (detective quests , subtle urban quests , riddles , quality mini-games etc ) , more variety of items/armours/materials (give us more objects than 10 year old Morrowind not less ) , and overall complexity of the game (not just the magic system and spell crafting ) .

From my point of view , we didn't need 150 dungeons , actually 30 were more than enough for me ... I mean focusing so much on it made Skyrim a dungeon looting game , pretty much every quest is go to dungeon number xy and kill everybody , and NPC are completely uninteresting (which NPC will you remember two years from now in Skyrim ? voice acting is lacking as well , always the same guy talking gets on my nerve , they needed at least twice more people ) , but ok as an action/adventure game , the game is very good and fun , and if the game sells well on console as is , fair enough , but today many RPG players expect more quality in this department (RP content ) and are sad to see the once RPG reference that was the TES3 (Morrowind ) degenerated into an eye candy action/adventure game , i understand Bethesda is a business and they want to maximize profits by pleasing those who brings them the most money in priority (console market ) , but if their next game is again a console port that is only an improvement in graphics and action gameplay , it will be the end of TES for me .

Skyrim Feels just abit like god of war, but I can wander arround in a city for a full hour doing nonesense

Skyrim is 100% RPG....this is the style of western game publishers...(those not in Japan). You seem to be missing the old school RPG's... Those are now considered JRPG's (Japanees Role Playing Games) or turn based RPG's. Being 42yrs old I have played so many turn based RPG's in my life it is not even funny, from Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire and a million other titles that my pea brain can't seem to think of right now. Those are all great games. However things change over time, people wanted games that were more interactive. Just because current day RPG are different from old school RPG's doesnt mean that they are not truly RPG's....take heavy metal music for example...Metal music ranges from a band like Poison, Bon Jovie and Tesla all the way to bands like Metallica, Slayer, Venom and every thing in between....it's all Heavy Metal, it just gets labeled Hair Metal, Speed Metal, Death Metal and much much more...RPG are the same way ...THEY ARE ALL RPG's, they just have different styles....

Xbox live has some excellent JRPG's in its arcade. I have bought many of them....Cthulu Saves the World....Breath of Death VII....Doom and Destiny to name my favorites....these games are better than many old school RPG's from back in the day.

As you spread out the breadth that you cover, you lose depth. Skyrim is a much larger game with more content than KoToR, so the story and plotlines aren't as deep or complex because they invested their time and budget in having lots of content rather than an extremely well done 60 hour campaign(Not that the content in Skyrim is bad, it's well done in it's own right). That's how TES games have always been.

By the way, Bioware has betrayed me. Mass Effect 2 has almost no RPG elements in the combat system and I hate it. The plot is good though.

The objective in Skyrim is to play a role and to solve problems through the role. That is pretty much all that makes any game an RPG. Anything else just contributes to making the game better or worse.

Well said.

As a side note (rant), I'm tired of these cinematic story "RPG" fans coming on here demanding that Bethesda change the open ended style into a heavily scripted, play once and uninstall disposable piece of garbage like what BG fans did with Bioware. I think NWN was one of the greatest achievements in computer gaming, one of the best RPG's ever made, and the high water mark for BioWare. Bitter disappointment when they chose to go the linear, restrictive route instead of open ended sanbox style where you can actuallly roleplay like NWN.

Keep doing what you do Bethesda!

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

Now now, you can't use that claim. I may have a big beef with the TC, but you're not helping here at all. By that definition, every game is an RPG, you could even argue that casual games could fall under it. RPGs have specific mechanics that they use - a proper way to present this is to show skyrim utilizes these, and it's really not that hard to do.

Bioware games do what they do very well.

Yea I agree about ME2. I found myself just trying to get through combat as quickly as possible-- hell I even put it on easiest-- just so I could get to the next cutscene or storyline arch. The plot was DAMN good tho.

I'm gonna have to agree here. There are certain ways I like my RPGs. If I want the immersion factor, I look to pick up a WRPG. If I want a scripted story, JRPGs have typically done that very well (though in recent years they have been struggling with this...). There are pros and cons to both types of RPGs, so you have to really look into what sort of game you want, rather than demand all games be your way.

Skyrim is as close to a tabletop RPG as any game gets, even the D&D mmo is farther away from being a true rpg then skyrim,

OFFS lets get down to the ninty gritty

1) the game world not noticing whats going on....................... thats complete and utter rubbish what your gripe here is, is that each and every decision you make isnt recogised plenty of time they reference me and my deeds even if they are sometimes worthless side quests (and guess what? even in the old table top games not everything you did was recogised it was only main deeds and your level ooh your so powerful and evil) what you want is EVERYTHING possible to reference to be referenced it just isnt fesible

2) rubbish about quest markers and convo's not mattering skipping ahead of dialogue, whilst i will award you points for the quest markers restricting the fun in finding stuff yourself (seriously they should have made it an option but kept the old school style) as for your choice of convos not mattering quite a few do not all but manydo and of course like all RPG's even P&P not all do, as for skipping ahead of dialogue well gee williker you dont have to read the books etheir OOHHH NOOOO

3) your ability as a gamer affects combat............................. its a videogame!................................(moving on) have you tried playing novice? also your leveling and perks matter way more then ability to "game" (BTW combat is similar to almost all of the TES games)

all that said i'd agree with you to a point is TES a classical RPG? no, at the same time though TES was always an ARPG and still is although its gotten more Action RPGish then when the series started its still WELL with in the bounds of an ARPG, to call it an action adventure is like comparing a merc to a ...... statesman

theirs many things to [censored] about that take away for the RP of skyrim (mainly things that take away from the customisation of your avatar) but things youve listed are not only present they are for the most part handled rather well

*as always apoliges for my english or lack of*

This.

Except for the games that are actually based on tabletop RPG's, right? Like NWN? Or Planescape?
._.

RPG or not by your definition, Skyrim is a medieval fantasy game and that is why I'm playing it, and I suspect many others are as well. There really isn't any competition out there once you eliminate the games with pink and puple enivornments.

my point and a lot others is that DnD = the best but its not being created as new in 2011-12 so we have to look elsewhere. skyrim is the best we have and I for one am thankful we have it because the situation could be even more bleak.

Agree 100% , there is almost nothing RPG in Skyrim it's as much of an RPG as S.T.A.L.K.E.R,Just Cause,GTA + skills/perks.

To me RPG has to have this:
- Character definition/build.In Skyrim you can easily max out everything , of course i can "ignore it" but that's lame excuse , game must provide restrictions on player for a challenge and "thinking where to invest" purposes without it Skyrim skill is useless , also no stats
- C&C Skyrim has umm Stormcloacks or Imperials...and...uhhh....cant really remember any other meaningful choices.
- Interaction with NPC you hardly have anything to talk about with NPC's in Skyrim (text based dialog ftw)

There are some more , but that would be nitpicking.I suppose Skyrim is an ARPG , but than again term "RPG" is so overused and [censored] nowadays that it hardly means anything.

TES games are evolving as inverted pyramid http://oi42.tinypic.com/4zx10h.jpg

Skyrim is an RPG. Its a Role Playing Game. Thematically it has all the trappings of what an RPG is all about. Also, literally it is actually a game where you assume the ROLE of a character and PLAY out his/hers life in the GAME world, as though it were real to your character. No stats? No problem. Still an RPG. Dont like the way RPG are going in terms of video games? Too bad.

Uhu so you are saying that for example Saints Row would be RPG if it had skill/perk system ?

This is awful logic. As someone else mentioned, every game is an RPG using that definition.

By the way, you can't max all the perk trees in Skyrim. So you still have to pick a focus.

I think people are too obsessed over genres and definitions. You shouldn't ask yourself if Skyrim is an RPG, you should ask yourself if you enjoy playing Skyrim. You do? Great. You don't? Stop playing.

I never stopped to wonder if Skyrim met some kind of subjective definition of what RPGs should be.

But if you really want to complain about how almost no RPG in the last 10 years is an RPG according to your standards, the entire RPGCodex forum is dedicated to that.