Maiq's father was named Maiq. And Maiq's father's father was named. And Maiq's father's father's father was named Maiq.

At least, that's what M'aiq's father said... xD

In order for any of that to be true, M'aiq would need to be a father in the first place. There's hope of the M'aiq from Morrowind being such, but the disgrace from Oblivion would be horrified of what he'd need to do to father a child/kitten.

Not true. A Daedric Prince does not have to physically be present to either sense, or influence Nirn. Coupled with Bethesda's own prerogative of never setting in stone player canon (less there be another Dragonbreak), its easy to use or not use what Sheo says in Skyrim as your own lore, or not..

But they do set in stone what the player does. The Nerevarine did what the Nerevarine was suppose to do. And all the consequences that followed. They just left the player specific detials, like race and gener, vague.

Likewise, the Champion of Cyrodiil did what the Champion was suppose to do. In the main game and in the expansions.

They don't however set in stone what the player does after the game, which is what we are talking about. Not to mention You specifically don't have to be the person that they talk about, even if you played the older games. Just because you played Oblivion for example, doesn't mean you were the CoC. The player specific details that you mention is what makes the player character and player lore/canon, not what some random Argonian, or in this case, Sheo says. Not to mention, you are whatever you say you are, or do. If you say your not a Dragonborn, Nerevarine, etc. then your not.

As Mitheledh said: the events shown in the TES series happened.

Just how many spoiler tabs are there in this thread

Well, the mudcrabs are in. as well as the daedric lords.

And just because they happened, doesn't mean it was you. Read my above post. Its left internally vague on purpose. Sheo is the CoC pc just as much as he isn't the CoC pc, its dependent on the player.

So you're argument is that you're going to pretend it wasn't you, so neither we, nor Beth, can say it was?

How can it be the pc if you didnt do it? Was there a CoC? Yes, did it have to be you? No. See what Im saying. I mean its what Beth has always done. You know there's no canon lore player character choice wise. Less there be another dragonbreak AKA retcon.

By that logic the player of Morrowind isn't the Nerevarine and the player of Skyrim isn't the Dragonborn.

You know what? Sure, you can absolutely run off to Riften the moment you make it out of Helgen but any expansion will take the events of Skyrim's main plotline as canon. Subsequent games will talk about the return of the dragons the way certain folks in Skyrim talk about the Oblivion Crisis. That's just the way it is. The events of the Shivering Isles happened, there's no arguing with that. If players chose not to complete it and write their own little get-out-clauses then that's fine but just as all endings of Daggerfall are canon, the ending of the Shivering Isles is canon.

The old god is dead. Long live the new god!

You are whatever you say you are.

Hell, that's probably why there never really are many choices for every quest in ES games. They gave one at the end of Daggerfall and Akatosh took a [censored] siesta.

Anyway, this is about if Sheo is CoC, not whether the main plot of any main ES title is lore, which they all are, but they don't have to be the player character. Its all about what you want when it comes to pc canon. Its why Beth has always hinted, but never came right out and said it.

Is Sheo the CoC? Yes. Is Sheo the CoC? No.

If your personal player character did not complete the events of Oblivion, did not become the Champion of Cyrodiil and never ventured into the Shivering Isle then, yeah, I guess he wasn't the chosen one or what have you. However, the protagonist of Oblivion and the Shivering Isles, the one history remembers, the one lore takes into account, the character who is canon. He is

Whatever, nerds!

*plays his pokemanz*

He is, and he isn't. Going by Daedric lore, every PC usually gets [censored] over anyway after he acquired their artifact. The debate could last forever, but in the end, fact is, only Beth can give a 100% confirmation, and they never will because they want it to be vague and oblique.

Canon-wise, he is. Developer-wise, lore, history, in Skyrim etc? S/He absolutely is.

For you? Maybe your PC isn't. But your PC was forgotten about and did nothing special. That's totally fine.


So you're saying the main quest of the Shivering Isles didn't happen? By that logic,

No, Beth never clarifies whether he is, so no, its not lore, or canon wise, its speculation wise.

The Shivering Isles is canon. Are you disputing this?

Its speculation whether the CoC is still Sheo and will forever be until Beth gives a definitive answer. Its speculation. If you want it to be, then it is. If you don't, and want to say any other theory, then it is, because Beth doesn't involve themselves in pc canon. Nor do they when they give vague accounts of what happened to previous Heroes.

What does CoC mean in the context of this game?

Champion Of Cyrodiil, Hero Of Oblivion. As in, the CoC went to SI and participated in Sheos madness, becoming him, arguably. But the 200 years after that? Anything goes.

Is there evidence in Skyrim and in SI that the Sheo in Skyrim is still the CoC and by extension many player characters? Yes, is there also evidence against that and enough reasonable doubt and simply not having enough info about almost any aspect of it? Yes.

In the end its all on the player to make the connection, and say whether it is, or isn't true, since I doubt Beth ever will.

Beth absolutely involves itself in player canon. Almalexia calls the player out as the Nerevarine in Tribunal. Heck, we even know the Nerevarine went to Akavir after all the drama was over. What the player does is used to create the next game or expansion in the franchise. Who the player is at the beginning of the game is something Bethesda doesn't touch. Gender, age, race, backstory... all of that's a mystery. All of their acomplishments? Not so much.


-sighs- So many edits. So much 6am.

Its speculative.

No it is not. Sorry, but your guy or gal is now officially a mad god. You just have to live with the fact that your beloved avatar is now the patron saint of asylums.