Auriel and Akatosh Merged Similar Topics

Post » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:04 pm

Wouldn't that undermine the Altmer's belief in him, if he was always god that simply sent down an avatar of some sort? IIRC, the Altmer revere him because he was a mortal that managed to ascend, showing that it was possible to break free of Mundus and mortality. If he was already a god when he did that, he'd just be a big show-off.
While we're never given explicit reference to why they revere Auri-El in particular, it seems to me that the most likely explanation is because he's the oldest spirit, and every other spirit was only able to come into being because of his stabilizing influence, making him in some sense the Ur-Ancestor of everyone, and the Altmer are all about the ancestors.

Dargor also makes an important point. The Altmer believe that there is no fundamental difference between the soul of mer and the soul of gods, and believe that they are the descendants of the gods.
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Claire Lynham
 
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Post » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:25 pm

Is this true?

Spoiler
Not sure if we can post DG spoilers here but if anyone else has done it and had the conversation with a certain individual, he states that Auriel is actually one of the et'Ada who left with Magnus instead of actually being an aspect of Akatosh.

It seems noone is Akatosh these days. :happy:

Which character said this?
Spoiler

An elven character says that Auriel is another name for Akatosh. Even so, there's a statue of Auriel which looks nothing like a dragon (he's an elf holding a sun-shaped object up.)
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Jamie Moysey
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:17 am

Which character said this?
Spoiler

An elven character says that Auriel is another name for Akatosh. Even so, there's a statue of Auriel which looks nothing like a dragon (he's an elf holding a sun-shaped object up.)

Spoiler
I'm going to say Serana. I spent an hour watching that quest and she's the only one who said something like that.
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Marilú
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:03 am

Which character said this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlZQauEEnIU
Spoiler
Serana: "Auriel is one of the elven gods. He's with the rest of them in Aetherius. The way I've heard it, the sun represents the connection from our world to theirs. Supposedly, the bow draws its energy from the sun itself, which is why it shows up in that prophecy."
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REVLUTIN
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:03 am

If that's the only line, nothing has changed, as it is only an expression of the mistaken mortal belief that all the Aedra live in Aetherius.

Unless she's referring to Altmeri culture deities that also ascended.
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Marina Leigh
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:52 am

Why the hell did I read this? Stupid Lore forum, I wanted to find this in game...

Anyway, if those quotes are right then it doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything. From what I hear they just say Auriel is in Autherius, well that's not all that special most of them believe all Aedra are there anyway.
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Nichola Haynes
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:38 am

Magna Ge, that is, an Anuic spirit who did not sacrifice for Creation, but abandoned Nirn.

Unless of course, the Anuic spirits 'cut off' the Gift-Limbs during the Dawn Era before Convention, which would allow him to be a variant of the TIme God still, just one who pieced out. Unless he was born a mortal Aldmer, but then he wouldn't be an ancestor. Unless he mantled Akatosh somehow, but we never heard any mention of that. Unless he was an incarnation of Akatosh who was born in human form (like Wulfharth (maybe) or Pelinal (also maybe).

Agh.

We need the exact text. Badly.

If he was a mortal Aldmer and ascended unto Aetherius, he would be considered an ancestor.
The last Snow Elf mentions that aside from Auri-El they worshiped other gods, though to a lesser degree.
Of the ones he mentioned I remember Syrabane, Phynaster and Trinimac.
Phynaster is an ancestor-god, perhaps Auri-El is also, but considered greater.
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Judy Lynch
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:15 am

I'm starting to think that Dragonbreaks have more serious consequences than just time going bonkers-wonkers dual-stream for a few cubic centuries,

Like, Borhamu getting rocked so hard in the face that he starts spitting out tusks consequences.
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Roberto Gaeta
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:39 am

Seems on uespwiki are the same thing but on other references I read auriel is an elven ancient hero ascended to Godhood , whilemon others is Anu a primeval force ....so how are set the things?
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:19 am

The UESP is wrong.
From information of the DLC it seems like Auri-El is a god-ancestor similar to Trinimac or Phynaster.
He left for (ascended to) Aetherius, which is why he is revered among many elven people.
Anu is a primordial force, a few gradients of creation above Auri-El.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:52 pm

The UESP is wrong.
From information of the DLC it seems like Auri-El is a god-ancestor similar to Trinimac or Phynaster.
He left for (ascended to) Aetherius, which is why he is revered among many elven people.
Anu is a primordial force, a few gradients of creation above Auri-El.

Spoiler

No. The snow elf (Gelebor?) says that Auriel is Akatosh. I'd trust an elf more than a vague remark from a human vampire.
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:19 am

Spoiler

No. The snow elf (Gelebor?) says that Auriel is Akatosh. I'd trust an elf more than a vague remark from a human vampire.

He does?
I dont remember that.
I remember him talking about other gods revered by the Snow Elves, and among them were many god-ancestors such as Phynaster and Syrabane.
In any case, he cant be Akatosh. Akatosh is still here, he is an Aedra, he is dead.
If he was an original god he is a Magna-Ge, and if he was born an Aldmer but achieved divinity similar to Trinimac then he is a god-ancestor.
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DAVId Bryant
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:58 am

"Auri-El: the Elven Akatosh"

This doesn't mean he's the God of the Time it means he's the Head of the Pantheon. Nowhere (to my knowledge) is it stated that Auri-El is the God of Time.

Auri-El was the King of the Elves of the previous Kalpa who ascended in the Dawn Era of this Kalpa.

Akatosh is the Dragon God of Time who became so when the Marukhati messed about too much.
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LADONA
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:16 am


This doesn't mean he's the God of the Time it means he's the Head of the Pantheon.

That's not the reason. Akatosh isn't the head of every pantheon with an equivalent deity in it.

In his only known moment of weakness, he agreed to take his part in the creation of the mortal plane, that act which forever sundered the Elves from the spirit worlds of eternity. To make up for it, Auri-El led the original Aldmer against the armies of Lorkhan in mythic times, vanquishing that tyrant and establishing the first kingdoms of the Altmer, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Atmora and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Old_Ehlnofey.
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Alyesha Neufeld
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:08 am

All elves were once gods. In the Dawn Era, the subgradient chain was a lot shorter than it is now, and continuity of the universe was incomprehensible. It's not entirely impossible for the elves to have conceived the God of Time (not Imperial Akatosh, the original, unified spirit), as one of their own. The only odd part is that he is remembered for ascending, rather descending (in Adamantia). Maybe that's just the religious part of it. The Imperials also believe that their Divines live transcendentally in Aetherius, after all.
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Scotties Hottie
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:48 am

That's not the reason. Akatosh isn't the head of every pantheon with an equivalent deity in it.

I take back my earlier point just a bit of speculation.

Although I see no resemblance between Auri-El and Akatosh except that they share the place at the top of a Pantheon.

If I were to modify my post I'd say that, if the Dawn Era was the last era of the last kalpa, Auri-El was the last Dragonborn of the last Kalpa who defeated the Space-God's armies in the last battle of the last Kalpa which we know as Convention. If the Dawn Era wasn't the last Era of the last kalpa then Auri-El was a strong Et'Ada who lost all his power in creating Mundus but regained it via Dracochrysalis.
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lucile
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:54 am


Although I see no resemblance between Auri-El and Akatosh except that they share the place at the top of a Pantheon.
I meant to offer than quote as the resemblance. His mythic role as Lorkhan's adversary.

If I were to modify my post I'd say that, if the Dawn Era was the last era of the last kalpa, Auri-El was the last Dragonborn of the last Kalpa who defeated the Space-God's armies in the last battle of the last Kalpa which we know as Convention. If the Dawn Era wasn't the last Era of the last kalpa then Auri-El was a strong Et'Ada who lost all his power in creating Mundus but regained it via Dracochrysalis.
I still don't know if we can consider Nordic religious concepts and Aldmeri religious concepts in the same breath.
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мistrєss
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:14 am

Auriel is Akatosh, but like how Alduin is Akatosh.

They're the same as in they're both dragon gods.
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Kieren Thomson
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:51 am

"Auri-El: the Elven Akatosh"

This doesn't mean he's the God of the Time it means he's the Head of the Pantheon. Nowhere (to my knowledge) is it stated that Auri-El is the God of Time.

Auri-El was the King of the Elves of the previous Kalpa who ascended in the Dawn Era of this Kalpa.

Akatosh is the Dragon God of Time who became so when the Marukhati messed about too much.
"When Akatosh forms, Time begins, and it becomes easier for some spirits to realize themselves as beings with a past and a future." - the monomyth, under the heading, "The Dragon God and the Missing God"

"At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design. Aspects of the Aurbis then asked for a schedule to follow or procedures whereby they might enjoy themselves a little longer outside of perfect knowledge. So that he might know himself this way, too, Anu created Auriel, the soul of his soul. Auriel bled through the Aurbis as a new force, called time. With time, various aspects of the Aurbis began to understand their natures and limitations. They took names, like Magnus or Mara or Xen. One of these, Lorkhan, was more of a limit than a nature, so he could never last long anywhere." - monomyth, Altmeri, "The Heart of the World"

I still don't know if we can consider Nordic religious concepts and Aldmeri religious concepts in the same breath.

Yeah. I'm still not entirely sure how to reconcile Kalpas with Satakal and the simple story of straight, continuous degradation. I'm sure they're all true, but how they intersect is, AFAIK, still unknown.
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adame
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:34 am

Auriel is Akatosh, but like how Alduin is Akatosh.

They're the same as in they're both dragon gods.
Auriel ent a dragon.

Being a dragon doesn't make Alduin and Akatosh the same being; it's proof of their connection. Same with Alkosh and Tosh Raka (different case here, I know).
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Penny Flame
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:31 am


"At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design. Aspects of the Aurbis then asked for a schedule to follow or procedures whereby they might enjoy themselves a little longer outside of perfect knowledge. So that he might know himself this way, too, Anu created Auriel, the soul of his soul. Auriel bled through the Aurbis as a new force, called time. With time, various aspects of the Aurbis began to understand their natures and limitations. They took names, like Magnus or Mara or Xen. One of these, Lorkhan, was more of a limit than a nature, so he could never last long anywhere." - monomyth, Altmeri, "The Heart of the World"

There we have it. I'm beginning to think that not much has really changed.
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Amy Gibson
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:01 am

Auriel ent a dragon.

Being a dragon doesn't make Alduin and Akatosh the same being; it's proof of their connection. Same with Alkosh and Tosh Raka (different case here, I know).
Dracochyrsalis.

My theory from another thread was, Alduin existed before Akatosh, but Alduin was his son after Akatosh always existed by being invented by Alessia and broken by the Maruhkuti.

Riddle me this, are Kyne and Kynereth the same being? Shor and Lorhkan and Shezzar? Tsun and Zenithar? Talos and (by a very long stretch) HoonDing?
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X(S.a.R.a.H)X
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:34 am

Dracochyrsalis.
And?

My theory from another thread was, Alduin existed before Akatosh, but Alduin was his son after Akatosh always existed by being invented by Alessia and broken by the Maruhkuti.
The original pre-Convention Time God (referred to in lore as Akatosh because we are all Imperiocentrists) existed before all of them. Auriel and Alkosh and the rest arise because of mortal belief, although Alduin has to show up each Kalpa (although he doesn't do anything until the end) and Akatosh might be a novelty of this kalpa.

Riddle me this, are Kyne and Kynereth the same being? Shor and Lorhkan and Shezzar? Tsun and Zenithar? Talos and (by a very long stretch) HoonDing?
Kyne and Kynareth have the same kinship as Auriel and Akatosh and Alduin. Although Is suspect Skyrim's lore would boringly put the difference down to cultural interpretations of the same spirit, rather than splinter-spirits created by cultural interpretations.

Shor vs Shezarr probably works a bit differently since Lorkkhan is dead, but not noticeably so.
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:05 am

Thanks for correcting me, although:


"At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design. Aspects of the Aurbis then asked for a schedule to follow or procedures whereby they might enjoy themselves a little longer outside of perfect knowledge. So that he might know himself this way, too, Anu created Auriel, the soul of his soul. Auriel bled through the Aurbis as a new force, called time. With time, various aspects of the Aurbis began to understand their natures and limitations. They took names, like Magnus or Mara or Xen. One of these, Lorkhan, was more of a limit than a nature, so he could never last long anywhere." - monomyth, Altmeri, "The Heart of the World

Anui-El sounds a lot like Satakal to me thus adding world-eating/kalpa symbology for the Aldmer.
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Stephanie Nieves
 
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Post » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:07 am

snip
Fair point to all of that. I cede to you.
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Bedford White
 
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