In my time of using Mods in Morrowind and Oblivion i have had the game crash plenty of times.

Oblivion would lock up when i tried to exit, Morrowind got so messed up i did a complete reinstall.

It would be impossible to just open up the modding community on consoles without this kind of stuff happening, and Microsoft doesn't want that on their closed system that is supposed to be plug and play.

The only thing i could see happening is Beth making their own versions of some of the simple mods and releasing them as DLC, or they could release a simple creation tool for use on the console where the player could make a new house or design a new sword.

There are a few problems:

-Sony won't let it happen.

-"Top 10" caliber mods would likely be too much for the PS3.

-Skyrim already suffers from memory issues.


I do think that Sony should let some mods on the PS3. I think that this might be a perfect convergence of circumstances to make a case for bringing some mods for Skyrim to the PS3.

1-PS3 is nearing the end of it's life cycle and by the time Skyrim's DLC run is done it will be a lot closer,so it might make a good guinea pig.
2-Steam is integrated into the PS3

I really don't know what can carry over from PC. The PS3 might be better off if Bethesda offered a rudamentary CK for the PS3. Something more akin to a level editor allowing for creating houses/caves/forts, stocking them with enemies/chests and scripting courier events to start quests. I don't know what could be done for custom NPCs, armor/weapons and voiceovers.

Actually- ignoring the troll part of this post- consoles are a significantly larger factor of the market for bethesda. Looking at the sales figures can prove that. But more to negate your statement: PC gaming is becoming more fringe than it used to be. As consoles continue to add functionality and complexity the PC becomes more marginalized- both on its high investment price and its set limitations. Motion detecting consoles- thats the way things may progress, look at the wii. Examining the longterm trend shows a decline in PC gamers as a portion of the market.

Yes- this game for PC. Is wonderful. I have one, and mods are great, but we are in the minority now. It is not out of the question for the consoles customers to start demanding more from their products, and this is how things go.

Quit hating on consoles, as they get more complex, and many PC- like things enter the market (who here has an ipad or smartphone?) Pure PC loses ground. It is evolution, watch it happen.

If your 22 yo status makes you not the "youth" you talk about, make sure your posts don't look identical to theirs, others might get confused. think more broadly.

I would like to see this happen, but only for mods that fix bugs, not stuff that really changes the game. I think Microsoft and/or Sony might allow bug fixes from the modding community as long as Bethesda has tested them and is the one who submits them. I highly doubt that mods which change the actual gameplay or allow shortcuts/cheating/etc would ever get past Microsoft or Sony though. Tried and true bug fix mods that simply provide fixes for vanilla Skyrim would have the best chance the way I see it.

Overall, I really doubt even bug fix mods or anything else from third party modders would get into Skyrim or other games on consoles.

It is just misplaced hatred. PC gamers blame console gamers for the decline in quality of games on the PC, specifically ones built for consoles in mind making PC gamers have to suffer with sub-par UIs, shoddy controls, and dumbed down gameplay due to the limitations of gamepads. Really and truly PC gamers should be blaming the developers for this, but console gamers are seen as enablers and are "allowing" developers to get away with cutting corners. My largest complaint about consoles is the fact that they have not yet adopted Mouse + Keyboard and having full and total support for every game. Gears of War and action adventure games are great with a game pad, not so much for FPS games and games like Skyrim. Any sort of twitch/percision based gameplay or game where the player benefits from having more hotkeys available will be a higher quality of game experienced on the PC in terms of control.

The PC can use motion controls as well. From a choice of numerous different devices.


http://jonpeddie.com/publications/pc_gaming_hardware_market_report/

http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/



Only if you WANT a high investment price. Same as if a console gamer buys the most expensive version of a console at release ($600 for the PS3 for example) and a massive TV, tons of extra controllers, etc. http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/pc-gaming-is-cheaper-than-you-think-heres-a-guide

Recheck your stuff thumbtack.

I have. It's pretty solid information. Your information on the other hand is shaky, at best. But we are getting WAY off topic here. Perhaps continuing in private messages would be better if you'd like.

Anyways, consoles don't have mods (at least not on this scale) because of all the factors, which have been discussed to death. Hosting the files, picking sorting moderating them, bug fixes, optimization, testing, writing the download program (two or 3 depending on how many consoles the TES game ends up on), coming up with a mod management system, etc etc etc. That's A LOT of work for free stuff. And, again, whos fault is it if a console dies because it was overloaded with mods? The user? Sony/MS/Nintendo? Beth? That could create a ton of issues if peoples consoles die from something that Sony/MS allowed them to download.

I am most definitely for the idea. Getting to experience all the interesting modifications that PC users have made and enjoyed would be great. Beth and MS could even charge for 'em (just not too much). Maybe us users could vote for the top mods, with the overall winners receiving some kind of prize or industry recognition?

I have to say, this is the most sense I've heard come from a PC player. Thank you. Unfortunately, unlike what you say, a lot of PC player DO blame us console players for "holding games back" "dumbing games down" etc etc. As if simply having the game on PC isn't enough, console players still get dragged out as pariahs and lepers, in a community like this that revolves around the same game.

I play Skyrim on the 360. I bought it for 360 because my PC svcks(but does what I need it to), and I just so happen to have a 360 I bought several years ago that works fine. I have several hundred hours of play time in Skyrim already. If I stopped playing the game right now, I'd still have gotten my $60 worth many times over. So no, I'm not complaining about consoles not getting mods. Mods would be awesome, but I knew they weren't going to happen when I made my purchase. No regrets here.

But back on topic, if Bethesda were to play middle-man somehow and make some mods "official," I'd be more than happy to pay a DLC fee for them. As long as the original authors is credited, I don't see how it would be a problem.

And to the Modders, as far as "not giving our hard work out for free," you already are, just to PC players only. Besides that, it doesn't matter how much "hard work" you do, you're doing it on someone else's game. You do not work for Bethesda. You are not on staff. Any and all "work" you do, is purely voluntary; nobody is forcing you to develop anything. You are not under contract. Maybe some manner like others have mentioned upthread, if there was maybe some way to checkmark whether you allow your mod to be published, so that at least you have a say in whether your "work" is lent out to console gamers.

As far as "pushing console technology" damaging the console, I'm sure there'd be some way Bethesda could test out the mod and see if it's console-compatible. If it's not, then hey, no biggie. One more thing PC has console doesn't. But the little stuff, like reskins of gear, better menus, hit detection, things like that, as long as it could pass some sort of test(within guidelines of console limitations) I could see it being a really cool thing.

Something similar happened with Rock Band. Not exactly modding, but the gaming community was allowed to make their own files of songs and upload them to the game company. When everything checked out, the song was placed online for download, and even the artist makes a little money for each download. This goes for ANY band, even unsigned garage acts. I know several bands who have done it. Yes, even on consoles.

I find it really sad that we are having tit for tat nonsense over a game. I bet there must be some modders out there who see where we console users are coming from. Really who cares what format you play on its the same game that we enjoy why not share it.?

Pathetic attitude.

I believe it has been pointed out to you several times in this thread, it's NOT ABOUT NOT WANTING TO SHARE.

It's about the inability to do.

Whatever happens, it requires (Again in bold for emphasis) REQUIRES Sony and Microsoft to agree to allow third party content of this nature on their systems. The game already pushes their hardware to the limit in places and the last thing they want is a host of complaints from people that added a bunch of mods and turned their system into a box of slightly broken plastic.

They also don't want a storm of publicity regarding advlt content (Remember Hot Coffee?) Heck, Oblivion got it's rating changed after unused topless female textures were found in the games files by modders. There was flak over that despite the fact, it would have been difficult for console owners to make use of it.

Someone could police the mods. Pick sutible ones, but as someone pointed out, who pays for this service? They won't do it for free so they'd need to charge, would you really be happy paying for mods that PC owners got free and that a shadow of whats actually available?

You know, there's a trend with these types of threads. They're almost always started by a console gamer with no modding experience and no real idea of how it all works. So they come in and present their overly simplistic ideas of how it can be done. Then it falls to PC gamers who have the experience in dealing with mods (both making and using), and console gamers who are a bit more aware of the issues, to explain why their idea won't work. They have to explain the issues involved that prevent mods on consoles from happening. Then, inevitably, the first group of console gamers come back and respond much the way you did. They ignore the issues or pretend that people are just being mean to them. Or just stingy.

Either way, even if you want to ignore what people are trying to tell you, it's not going to change the truth of the situation.

Mods on consoles would never work (even if M$ and $ony allowed it) due to compatabilty and technical issues. Also M$ and $ony would cash in on it and that would be horrible.

My nightmare scenario is one where it all leads to a situation like the Sims community. Where almost every site requires a subscription or mandatory donation to access the mods.

edit: Haven't bothered with Sims in so long, the situation may have changed and a stop was put to it.

Uh what else do you think it is heading towards? Micro-transactions and DLC are cash cows. They have been testing these waters for a long time. Activision is leading the way with their Auction system that is directly tied to PayPal. You think they would spend money on development of something like workshop out of the good of their hearts? Lol! This is framework for something much larger. You know all those APPS for phones that sell like hotcakes? Most of those the company hosting all of that has NO overhead creating. They get a cut of everything. Large-scale mods will end up costing you real money. They will implement this down the road and take a hefty cut. The only reason this has not happened yet is it has taken them a long time to figure out the litigious issues and responsibilities they as the host company have. Sony for example dabbled with in-game currency you could buy from THEM and not some 3rd party like swagvault or IGE. Know why you DON'T see these companies selling characters, currency, etc and instead players? It is because the moment they do, when your account is hacked - you are now losing REAL money. This makes them closer to a banking institution.

On the top 10 point

Who decides what the top 10 are?
I bet everybodies top 10 will differ

This should be required reading for anybody who brings the subject up.

• Probably 50-75% of mods won't run on console hardware. Maybe 20% of mods still won't run on the upcoming next-gen consoles. My new video card cost more than a console, and I still have to pick and choose mods, because my system isn't powerful enough to run everything I'd like to run. If I buy a $1500+ PC 3 - 5 years from now, then I'll be able to run everything I want without issues.

• Sony and Microsoft don't want you to use mods.

Other than the above issues, I think it would be great if BGS worked something out to release a pack of their favorite mods--but they'd have to carefully select mods that don't impact performance, so the list of possible mods will be limited to begin with. And then they'd have to run them through QA testing.

I think you're missing the point, which is that MS and Sony are never going to allow user-made content out for free, but if they and/or Bethesda take the work of modders and charge people for it, then those companies are profiting but the mod creators themselves see none of it.

Wondered how long it would take,

although you should check your facts first as I play on the xbox, but low and behold I am 14 years older than you. Dont figure hey!

And 'Consoles' are not ruining the series, the series is still great in my view, yours may be different, but the truth is that 'Bethesda' are still making the series great in my eyes, yet ruining it in yours.

Point your views directly to them in a letter (just ask your Father what that is) not here.

I bet Microsoft is thinking of a way to make this work, but all ideas include a profit margin. The thing is even if they make it work, console users will still feel screwed. Any plan will include the mod maker, Beth and Microsoft getting a slice of the money pie. Free for PC expensive for consoles will piss a lot of ppl off. Especially considering that some mods will need to be watered down and some of the most popular mods will never make an appearance. Still something like that will have probably give the XBOX a definitive edge over the Play Station so it is probably being discussed.

RE: the OP. I play on PS3 and Xbox. I would love to be able to buy something like OOO for one of those consoles. Yes, I said buy, and I would pay good money too. First, Bethesda would need to make a profit, that is how a free market economy works. There would also be a lot of costs involved because any mods would need to be ported to the consoles, checked for bugs, run through certification process, etc. Then Sony and Microsoft would want their share of the pie. Finally, it would only be fair to compensate Mr. Obscuro if his work is being sold for a profit.

So, in the end it would probably cost more than your run of the mill DLC to bring a small selection of good mods to consoles. But it would be worth it, and I for one would be willing to pay. I've said before in another thread that I would pay a couple hundred bucks to be able to run OOO on my PS3. I would probably be willing to pay more than most, but no one should expect this kind of stuff for free on consoles.

I am not interested in mods that improve graphics as much as I am in the ones that improve gameplay. I still play vanilla Morrowind and the graphics are fine with me. Is it the gameplay aspect of the mods that can't work on a console or is it more the graphics?

Again people, and I think this may be last time I'll say this becuase I repeat it on almost a daily basis, Bethesda is NOT the block here. It's Sony and Microsoft. They are very careful about what they let onto their consoles, so anything from BGS (like mods) would have to be vigorously tested and potentially modified.

Mods on consoles wont happen for a while, but the SW is certainly a step in the right directly. A VERY wabbly step supported by two crutches, and several other people, with paramedics standing by, but a step none-the-less.

You're right that most of the mods with performance issues would be related to graphics. But AI is a big problem, too. There's a huge CPU expense for NPCs--much more than in most other games. In both Oblivion and Morrowind adding (many) extra NPCs would bring a system to it's knees.

Adding a lot of meshes/objects can be an issue too, but not as bad as AI (such as in the various city expansions--you'd get pressure from both additional NPCs and additional meshes/textures to render). And scripts can be very CPU-intensive, though that varies a lot. Many of the most impressive mods (for combat, quests, etc.) have pretty heavy scripting. I think some would be fine, some might not be.

The issue is that even other types of mods (quests, for example), would have to either be careful to not add too many stressors (NPCs, objects, etc.), or they would have to be "cleaned" before being repackaged for consoles.