Destruction magic scaling (why it's fine) : V - Skyrim

» Sun May 13, 2012 1:00 am

To all those saying "just take conjuration", you do realize that all the other damage skills can also do this but with a considerably higher synergy, damage, and efficiency right?

It's not a class problem, its a skill problem (for the most part, I've also heard illusion and conjuration stop scaling at 45+)

If you're fighting melee you need HP and stamina, not magicka. If you spec for high-level magic you won't be doing much damage with your sword or surviving long in melee range.

You only need a very small investment magicka items (heavy armor has it) and a very few points of magicka to summon before a fight.

Your arguement is flawed, conjuration will always be better off with bow btw.

» Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 am

The only thing I don't like is people telling other people that they are playing an Open Sandbox game "wrong".

» Sat May 12, 2012 11:57 pm

Conjuration is better with 2h/1h/bow than Destruction. Destruction actually bogs your character down compared to those skills at higher levels. The only reason someone with conjurtion and/or ilusion would use destruction is for RP purposes. All other damage modalities would make him 2-3x more efficient. 10x efficient when including crafting exploits.

This is a fact atm.

Destruction keeps you at range, keeps you more mobile than archery, can hit AoE and doesn't require any investment in stamina, HP or stealth perks. Going only by single target damage numbers misses a lot.

Your arguement is flawed, conjuration will always be better off with bow btw.

Don't see how; bow is way more expensive than destruction to get max benefit out of it and it's far less mobile/versatile.

» Sun May 13, 2012 1:41 am

Warrior equipment ends up with 2469 Armor. / 3199 Damage.

They only need three skills to make that equipment.

After that, they have their unstoppable weapons.

Meanwhile, look at that overpowered mage dealing 100 damage. That is much more than 3199 isn't it /sarcasm

» Sun May 13, 2012 2:50 am

I'm guessing that most people just put one point in Destruction perks and think that's enough to get them through the whole game?

What am I missing here? I could of swore I was able to put multiple points into Fire Ice and Lightning to make them do a higher percentage of damage plus a point in knock-back perk which pretty much lets me stagger enemies endlessly with dual-cast spells.

Am I missing something or are people playing video games these days illiterate?

» Sat May 12, 2012 9:11 pm

The magicka regen does not work in battle

The reduce in magicka cost through perks is unnoticeable.

» Sun May 13, 2012 5:06 am

Destruction keeps you at range, keeps you more mobile than archery, can hit AoE and doesn't require any investment in stamina, HP or stealth perks. Going only by single target damage numbers misses a lot.

No it doesn't. There are a lot of beefy single-target enemies in this game. If you can't handle them, then you're SOL.

Hint: destruction can't handle them. Stop making excuses and just admit to poor balance. Bethesda isn't your girlfriend. Not gonna deny you six if you say something negative.

» Sun May 13, 2012 12:00 am

Warrior equipment ends up with 2469 Armor. / 3199 Damage.

They only need three skills to make that equipment.

After that, they have their unstoppable weapons.

Meanwhile, look at that overpowered mage dealing 100 damage. That is much more than 3199 isn't it /sarcasm

And the point is? Are you upset because people that are exploiting the crafting system to enter god mode with melee characters are forced to turn the difficulty down too much in order to make the game enjoyable?
The very easy solution is just dont exploit the crafting system and enjoy the game instead.

» Sat May 12, 2012 11:25 pm

2 problems with this entire subject:

1) Destruction really does need to scale and there needs to be enchants for it. This is a RPG ffs, the whole point is to keep making your character stronger. If i cant do that after lvl 35, then lvl 35 is the end of the RPG game for me.

2) Destruction should never be allowed to deal as much damage as melee toons, unlike what most pro-destro seem to think it should. You have too many advantages. Range, CC (stagger/slow/freeze), and enough mana and mana regen to make the access to other schools of magic viable (Yes, warriors can take conjuration... and then not have the mana to cast anything passed Novice because he has to focus on his health and stamina.). No matter how much you want your 1337 pure destro mages, you can't balance in a vacuum, because that would mean the game is too easy and broken for those who do want to delve into those trees.

In responce to your 2nd argument. That is a subjective view. This is a single player game so there shouldn't be any issue whatsoever in worrying over destruction being to strong. You might have an argument over npc's however if you are playing a melee character but that's what modding is for. Besides, If this were a real situation, mages would pwn everything because it WOULD be that much stronger than anything else and rightfully so!

» Sat May 12, 2012 10:23 pm

You cant use only one ability and win the game. To be an effecive warrior I have to work on leveling up:

1.One hand weapon
2.Heavy Armor
3.Blocking
4.Smithing
5.Alchemy
6.Restoration
7.Enchanting

Now, what happends is that those "Mages" want to use their fireball to kill everything around with one or at least two spells of their mighty fireball spell, standing there in Robes...
Not gonna happend. You have to be skilled in several different abilities to succeed. Not just in destruction magic.
If I wanted to play with the sword only, even it were maxed out to the 100th level - I wouldn't be competitive either.

I noticed that you didn't put in 2handed, axes or maces in there. Any reason why? Oh that's right because you don't need another method of attacking like a mage does.

Heavy armour and smithing you only have to use once. A mage has to constantly cast these spells over and over again taking away from his magicka, unless there is some permanent set of spells for armour out there that I never came across yet. (Seriously I don't know, I am not trying to be sarcastic)

» Sun May 13, 2012 5:21 am

Yeah ok I don't get it. Are people playing mages in Skyrim not aware they can use enchanting on their armor/clothes to boost damage and mana recovery?

» Sun May 13, 2012 12:22 am

No it doesn't. There are a lot of beefy single-target enemies in this game. If you can't handle them, then you're SOL.

Hint: destruction can't handle them. Stop making excuses and just admit to poor balance. Bethesda isn't your girlfriend. Not gonna deny you six if you say something negative.

Destruction handles them fine; just not ALONE. You take longer to kill single targets but you survive a lot longer and easier and you wreck large groups. Your single target damage isn't supposed to be on-par, that's not what mages are in this game.

You're just being a baby because of youtube videos where people with swords are killing big things faster than you. svck it up.

» Sun May 13, 2012 1:56 am

You cant use only one ability and win the game. To be an effecive warrior I have to work on leveling up:

1.One hand weapon
2.Heavy Armor
3.Blocking
4.Smithing
5.Alchemy
6.Restoration
7.Enchanting

Now, what happends is that those "Mages" want to use their fireball to kill everything around with one or at least two spells of their mighty fireball spell, standing there in Robes...
Not gonna happend. You have to be skilled in several different abilities to succeed. Not just in destruction magic.
If I wanted to play with the sword only, even it were maxed out to the 100th level - I wouldn't be competitive either.

I only see one damage playstyle in that list. I don't see 2H or bow or conjuration.

Entire arguement invalid. Why does only destruction need other damage suppliments?

» Sun May 13, 2012 10:42 am

And the point is? Are you upset because people that are exploiting the crafting system to enter god mode with melee characters are forced to turn the difficulty down too much in order to make the game enjoyable?
The very easy solution is just dont exploit the crafting system and enjoy the game instead.

No. Look at the amount of damage a mage does.

At levels 50+ Mages are pointless, and cannot deal ANY damage. conjuration, destruction or other.

At levels 50+ Warriors are getting much stronger, and deal massive damage

At levels 50+ Rogues are getting...stealthier...and deal massive damage with sneak attacks.

» Sun May 13, 2012 11:10 am

Destruction handles them fine; just not ALONE. You take longer to kill single targets but you survive a lot longer and easier and you wreck large groups. Your single target damage isn't supposed to be on-par, that's not what mages are in this game.

You're just being a baby because of youtube videos where people with swords are killing big things faster than you. svck it up.

Destruction does not handle them fine. Try fighting the first dragon at level 10 with destruction as your main source of damage output, on Expert difficulty. It's an unwinnable and impassible encounter.

"Not what mages are in THIS GAME." Okay, but the Mage, and direct damage magic in general, was allowed to do so much more in Oblivion and Morrowind? Was it completely imbalanced then, to the point of being an unstoppable god at level one? No. Stop being an idiot. Bethesda [censored] up. Deal with it.

» Sun May 13, 2012 6:19 am

Yeah ok I don't get it. Are people playing mages in Skyrim not aware they can use enchanting on their armor/clothes to boost damage and mana recovery?

There are no destruction magic damage enchants
Magicka recovery does not work in combat.

» Sun May 13, 2012 9:11 am

I only see one damage playstyle in that list. I don't see 2H or bow or conjuration.

Entire arguement invalid. Why does only destruction need other damage suppliments?

It doesn't need other damage supplements; it's just NOT SUPPOSED to do as much damage as melee or bow, period. The trade-off is all the pets, magic shields, AOE, CC and healing that warriors don't have access too in any substantial way.

» Sat May 12, 2012 11:00 pm

I would love to see someone play a dual wielding guy who doesn't wear armor and does not level life.

OMG, this is so unfair! I can't run around like a spaz and kill everything indiscriminately by focusing only on one skill and power attacking constantly!

Does that make sense to you?

Would you think someone is asking for trouble playing like that because they were not increasing life and some defensive skills?

It's not like there aren't the following for someone hell bent on playing a glass canon mage
Defensive Magic spells
An armorless defense perk
Defensive Shouts
Defensive enchanting
Defensive Guardian Stones

» Sun May 13, 2012 9:57 am

"Not what mages are in THIS GAME." Okay, but the Mage, and direct damage magic in general, was allowed to do so much more in Oblivion and Morrowind? Was it completely imbalanced then, to the point of being an unstoppable god at level one? No. Stop being an idiot. Bethesda [censored] up. Deal with it.

Didn't play Morrowind but magic was insane beyond insane in Oblvion. In this game Mages have so much more to work with than warriors do; why should mages be able to match warriors at the ONLY thing they do?

» Sun May 13, 2012 2:48 am

No it doesn't. There are a lot of beefy single-target enemies in this game. If you can't handle them, then you're SOL.

Hint: destruction can't handle them. Stop making excuses and just admit to poor balance. Bethesda isn't your girlfriend. Not gonna deny you six if you say something negative.

Hint: Stunlock

I can take any mob 1v1 with no effort, I just stunlock them. Giants, mammoths, Dragons, doesn't matter. Learn to Impact.

» Sun May 13, 2012 7:39 am

It doesn't need other damage supplements; it's just NOT SUPPOSED to do as much damage as melee or bow, period. The trade-off is all the pets, magic shields, AOE, CC and healing that warriors don't have access too in any substantial way.

Bow and melee has access to all that too :banghead:

Yes, I have a bow conjurer and hes extraordinarily easier on Master. I used to have destro but I started leveling marksmans instead when I noticed my Conjured Bow made the game easier.

» Sat May 12, 2012 11:04 pm

No. Look at the amount of damage a mage does.

At levels 50+ Mages are pointless, and cannot deal ANY damage. conjuration, destruction or other.

At levels 50+ Warriors are getting much stronger, and deal massive damage

At levels 50+ Rogues are getting...stealthier...and deal massive damage with sneak attacks.

Mages can survive on 50+ lvls as well. It just isnt as easy as people using melee, and certainly not people on melee that are exploiting the crafting system.

So, again, what is the problem?

If it is too easy with melee (on master), then start by not using the crafting system to become overpowered. If that isnt enough then just use a console command to lower your damage output or whatever so the game becomes appropriately challenging again.

If it is too difficult as a mage just turn down the difficulty.

Problem solved. There is no problem here.

» Sun May 13, 2012 12:10 am

Warriors have high hp and damage smaller = mages damage big and have small hp. This should be a basic rule in an rpg like this. Right now I kill enemies in 2 fireball shots but in 10 levels they will take 5-6 that's is completely pointless, be consistent about it or don't implement it, who wants to spend his perks and leveling on spells that are only effective for a short period of time. If I split my skills to conjuation illusion, etc my destruction will be damn weak and even more useless.

» Sun May 13, 2012 8:53 am

It doesn't need other damage supplements; it's just NOT SUPPOSED to do as much damage as melee or bow, period. The trade-off is all the pets, magic shields, AOE, CC and healing that warriors don't have access too in any substantial way.

That's just it. A warrior or a rogue can still use Restoration, or Conjuration, or both. So if a slightly buffed Destruction skill in combination with these things would be imbalanced, how exactly are rogues and warriors not imbalanced RIGHT NOW? You're full of [censored].

» Sat May 12, 2012 11:24 pm

A warrior who specs and gears for melee won't be touching any high level magic abilities. No magicka for it. We're talking about pure mages here and how they compare to pure warriors. Hybrids are hybrids.

No, we're talking about DESTRUCTION. Note the thread topic. A "Mage" that replaces Destruction and only Destruction with any other method of dealing damage is better off at 50. Period, full stop, end of story. Destruction, as a skill, does not scale. Magicka is not an issue, it is damage. That is the entire purpose of the skill and it isn't just weak, or not as good, it is so bad as to be literally irrelevant as a concern past level 40.

The topic here is not "magic is weak" because it's not. It's not "Mages are weak" because they're not.

Destruction, and only Destruction, is irretrievably broken at high levels.