[LuCY sCoTT]

It's a hybrid, and I see some people refuting that are just being pessimistic and completely negative, and not helping their point at all by being rude.

[Leah]

The issue is not black and white and you will not find a concrete definition because each developer is different and most do not classify their games as such. Depending on who you ask you may get a few hundred answers on what type of game or experience defines each term, here is what it really boils down to and what most who have been around can agree on.

Sand-box: Player generated content in which developers give the community/players tools to create content and interact, shape, and change the game world around them. Most MMOs in the last ten years do not follow this model and most games in general do not follow this model.

-SWG in part, was one of the bigger "sandbox games" as you could create content in some forms in which players could interact with, the game world was also so vast that you could run in a single straight line for hours and never reach an "end" (Invisible wall). Exploration, or the lack there of, does not make a game sandboxy or not, remember that the word comes from playing with toys in a sandbox. It is what you make it out to be.

-Minecraft is the most popular sandbox game out and people do not even realize that it is. You create what you want, the world populates it with NPCs and blocks to build or deconstruct and the fact that you can run in the game forever (Until Java kills it) and see random generated content. If an MMO was built just like that it frankly would be pretty boring.

THIS.

[Chloe Yarnall]

So reading from many comments, I can't help but notice that absolutely NO ONE likes the themepark model of rpg's in the mmo category. ...

Stopped here, that is not at all true.

Also the game has been 5+ years in the making so far, Beta will be starting this week/Month and the plan is to release in 2013, so its not very likely they would gut the game and make it into something completely different.

[Vicki Blondie]

I like themepark models sometimes. I think that destroys your premise.

Good luck, though.

[Laura-Lee Gerwing]

This game is a dang good hybrid of both. You can have themepark like SWTOR or Sandbox like EQ and both of them have flaws. A compromise is the best and hopefully ESO has done that.

[pinar]

I don't want this game to be to sandbox-like, because the SP games really aren't fully sandbox either. I'm good enough with having the base frame of this game being theme park, but having sandbox elements implemented within it though.

[Mariaa EM.]

Stopped here, that is not at all true.

Also the game has been 5+ years in the making so far, Beta will be starting this week/Month and the plan is to release in 2013, so its not very likely they would gut the game and make it into something completely different.

We can argue long and hard here, but in the end, I don't think you'd be defending a concept that's limiting on openness, whatever it may be.

Don't get fixated on my wording, the idea is to go against those limitations as much as possible. If for example, there is something that absolutely needs a themepark-esque model in it, fine. But the game deviating from the traditional sense of themepark, and encouraging more openness in their game I don't think you'd argue against.

But if that is what you're against that's also fine by me.

[Jessica White]

This game is a dang good hybrid of both. You can have themepark like SWTOR or Sandbox like EQ and both of them have flaws. A compromise is the best and hopefully ESO has done that.

Someone said here in the forums that a pure sandbox is a pipedream, there will always be limitations no matter what. I tend to agree with that, I don't think a pure sandbox can work, especially in the environment that this game is set up in. HOWEVER, I am for a hybrid, but I'd also like the sanbox aspect to be the dominant feel of the two, themepark only for necessities.

[Invasion's]

I want the game to be like the other TES games and they aren't Sandbox.

[Samantha Mitchell]

I want the game to be like the other TES games and they aren't Sandbox.

But they're very open, some would even say more so than other rpg's.

Don't get too fixated with the labels. That openness is what I'd like to see, and perhaps, even expanded on in this game.

[ladyflames]

Open world theme park, like the TES SP games.

[Bones47]

We can argue long and hard here, but in the end, I don't think you'd be defending a concept that's limiting on openness, whatever it may be.

Don't get fixated on my wording, the idea is to go against those limitations as much as possible. If for example, there is something that absolutely needs a themepark-esque model in it, fine. But the game deviating from the traditional sense of themepark, and encouraging more openness in their game I don't think you'd argue against.

But if that is what you're against that's also fine by me.

I like theme-park MMOs, I prefer theme-park MMOs, oops I just blew your theory right out the window, sorry.

[Becky Cox]

But they're very open, some would even say more so than other rpg's.

Don't get too fixated with the labels. That openness is what I'd like to see, and perhaps, even expanded on in this game.

The game is open enough. We are able to see all the zones with one character.

It would go against their idea of having a Mega server that everyone plays on if they opened it up where everyone can go to every zone and see everyone. Because at that point you have to allow PvP in those zones, and not every person like to PvP or even getting griefed by other people. So then you would have to make two separate PvE and PvP servers. So since they are basing this whole game off their Mega Server I don't ever see them opening up the zones so every can be in their together.

[Heather Stewart]

What feature(s) are you wanting? This is very non-specific.

[BethanyRhain]

I want the game to be like the other TES games and they aren't Sandbox.

TES is VERY much sandbox.

Sounds like there's two definitions of "Sandbox".

Sandbox refers to any game that's open-ended free-form of your choice of what you want to do. A literal "Throw you into the world and do what you want" concept.

I've heard a few people today talk as if they think that "Sandbox" solely refers to some player-generated content-based construction game like Second Life. I assure you that it is not.

If Grand Theft Auto III was the game that made the term "Sandbox" popular - then Skyrim is sure as hell also "sandbox".

So - in regards to the OP:

I definitely would like a mix of both, but focusing more on the sandbox elements (do what you want) as opposed to something rigidly pushing you into one form of gameplay aspect at the end of the game.

[Olga Xx]

I like theme-park MMOs, I prefer theme-park MMOs, oops I just blew your theory right out the window, sorry.

Do you like the single player games in addition to the theme-park mmos? Are you also a man of limits? If the last part is not true, then that's all I'm really going for.

If you ENJOY limits, whether you like themepark mmo's, OR NOT, then that's simply your opinion and we can agree to disagree. You don't have to shove a senseless argument to me(which by the way, you're still too fixated on the labels, not the argument itself).

[Jeffrey Lawson]

Do you like the single player games in addition to the theme-park mmos? Are you also a man of limits? If the last part is not true, then that's all I'm really going for.

If you ENJOY limits, whether you like themepark mmo's, OR NOT, then that's simply your opinion and we can agree to disagree. You don't have to shove a senseless argument to me(which by the way, you're still too fixated on the labels, not the argument itself).

Limits on what? What freedom are you looking for that that won't be available? Then we can discuss that.

[Miss Hayley]

What feature(s) are you wanting? This is very non-specific.

It is intended to be non-specific because it refers to very broad concepts. If I had to be specific to the extent you want me to, China would get angry with my wall.

TES is VERY much sandbox.

Sounds like there's two definitions of "Sandbox".

Sandbox refers to any game that's open-ended free-form of your choice of what you want to do. A literal "Throw you into the world and do what you want" concept.

I've heard a few people today talk as if they think that "Sandbox" solely refers to some player-generated content-based construction game like Second Life. I assure you that it is not.

If Grand Theft Auto III was the game that made the term "Sandbox" popular - then Skyrim is sure as hell also "sandbox".

So - in regards to the OP:

I definitely would like a mix of both, but focusing more on the sandbox elements (do what you want) as opposed to something rigidly pushing you into one form of gameplay aspect at the end of the game.

Thank you, this is what I'm talking about.

The game is open enough. We are able to see all the zones with one character.

It would go against their idea of having a Mega server that everyone plays on if they opened it up where everyone can go to every zone and see everyone. Because at that point you have to allow PvP in those zones, and not every person like to PvP or even getting griefed by other people. So then you would have to make two separate PvE and PvP servers. So since they are basing this whole game off their Mega Server I don't ever see them opening up the zones so every can be in their together.

Fair enough, but that's why I'm not arguing for a totally pure sandbox mmo, because as you said, it simply couldn't work. Like I said before, I am for a hybrid, however I'd like the sandbox elements to dominate the themepark, themepark only being for necessities like what you just described to me.

[Tessa Mullins]

It is intended to be non-specific because it refers to very broad concepts. If I had to be specific to the extent you want me to, China would get angry with my wall.

Would you just answer his question. Several people have been asking you to tell us what you mean by openess. You don't need to give us a damn novel. Just answer the question so people can actually have a discussion with you.

[Tai Scott]

Do you like the single player games in addition to the theme-park mmos? Are you also a man of limits? If the last part is not true, then that's all I'm really going for.

If you ENJOY limits, whether you like themepark mmo's, OR NOT, then that's simply your opinion and we can agree to disagree. You don't have to shove a senseless argument to me(which by the way, you're still too fixated on the labels, not the argument itself).

..."a man of limits"? Seriously?

Dude... I like Sandbox more than Themepark too, and I agree with many of your stances above... but don't try twisting his response into some strange way to chide him in his real-life ideological thinking.

This is not real-life... this is just a simple video game... designed for having a fun break when not doing life things... not a virtual way of life or to express life in upon itself.

Debate the ideas - not try to backwardly insult somebody. No matter how cleverly you write it... it still come off smacking with a childish intent of being derogatory.

[Sheila Reyes]

This is a useless thread. Yes, I would like to do more things than not. ZeniMax, please let us do things and don't stop us from doing them.

[Kim Kay]

Would you just answer his question. Several people have been asking you to tell us what you mean by openess. You don't need to give us a damn novel. Just answer the question so people can actually have a discussion with you.

Ok, I don't see you arguing with people who say the same thing, or other wording like "Sandbox elements" and such. I don't think I need to define what "openness" in a game like this means, in fact, the devs themselves say things like "openness".

Refer back to the single player games if you're still lost, and since you are rude, use your mind a little bit.

[Natasha Callaghan]

sandbox is the following:

Player driven content
Play driven economy in terms of manufacturing items, gears, setting prices
No classes, you make up your own character by mixing the skills and abilities you want to use
Consequences for dying, i.e. you lose your items and permanently die and re-spawn as a clone with no weapons
Changeable live open world, i.e make your own factions, guild housing on the map that everyone else online sees and can destory. Players can control territories and fight 24/7 on rotation to defend those places from enemy players.

That IS a sandbox type of game. EVE does it very well because it is a very simple game engine - empty space with panoramic paintings of space as the backdrop for each solar system you are in. The biggest graphical part of the game is just the space ships and the cosmetic walking in stations features.

Adding all of those features into a dynamic and living open world such as Tamriel I am convinced with today's technology is not possible, therefore we are not going to see any of that in this game. But that does not mean ESO is a sandbox. It is not. Not unless those features I mentioned are built into the game.

There are lots of MMOs that are themeparks but have a few sandbox elements. For example on Warhammer online you could capture keeps and invade a city to crown it under your faction making it your own which are elements of a sandbox type of game. But the linear process into getting there along with the tome of knowledge achievements are themepark based elements.

[Jonathan Egan]

Ok, I don't see you arguing with people who say the same thing, or other wording like "Sandbox elements" and such. I don't think I need to define what "openness" in a game like this means, in fact, the devs themselves say things like "openness".

Refer back to the single player games if you're still lost, and since you are rude, use your mind a little bit.

People are still confused. What do you mean by openess? Do you mean like being able to go where we want openess, or are you talking about more freedom of choices to do in the game. Really not hard to answer a question like that.

[Leonie Connor]

..."a man of limits"? Seriously?

Dude... I like Sandbox more than Themepark too, and I agree with many of your stances above... but don't try twisting his response into some strange way to chide him in his real-life ideological thinking.

This is not real-life... this is just a simple video game... designed for having a fun break when not doing life things... not a virtual way of life or to express life in upon itself.

Debate the ideas - not try to backwardly insult somebody. No matter how cleverly you write it... it still come off smacking with a childish intent of being derogatory.

He's not giving me a real discussion, but is being fixated to the labels. He also thinks he's not necessarily twisting my words to a certain extent either, well in that sense I am not either.

It's also a way of making my point clear. I didn't intent to insult him with saying is he a "man of limits"(though I should have said person, not man, I apologize for that...), if he isn't, well then I don't see why we're arguing.

Believe me, I don't like to argue like that, and I won't if you're actually interested in a real discussion and mature about it.