Just need to wait for a mod to fix it.

It should be like WoW where different areas have different lvl mobs. Gives you something to look forward to , being able to hit a new lvl and enter a new land or dungeon that once demolished you.

Basically he’s repetitively playing the same content over and over to beat “his times” or to get to a certain point in the game with progressively better gear. This generation of gamers makes me a sad panda.

Let me try to understand this.

Lets say Im begining the companions quests at lvl 4 and I need to kill some bandits, but after killing a couple of them I decide to not do it anymore. So, I go back to the
main quests and finish all of them and become lvl 40. If i go back to kill the bandits they will be lvl 40 now?

If this is correct, thats a huge immersion breaker. I save the world or whatever and after that Ill have trouble dealing with small town bandits?

Yea and this generation of trolls makes me sick.

Seriously though i never said something like this. I think you and the guy you are quoting got something wrong. By "speed run" i mean a brief introduction to the game to see things i wouldn't if started a normal char with an rp thing going on and all.
And by "perfect run" i mean starting a character in my own way of rp, finding secrets, exploring, raising skills to make proper preparations to assault dungeons etc.
What did you think i was saying "mr. old generation gamer?" You thought i was speaking in WoW terms? I even feel ashamed for mentioning that excuse of a game.


Are we seriously comparing Daggerfall's level scaling with Oblivions'? Because in Oblivion levels were like obsolete. Daggerfall's "level scaling" is not even worth mentioning comparing to that one.
And yes the trend is new. Making levels obsolete and rpg games like action games is a new trend and not dating back to 1996 or anything.


Well it's exactly like this for me at 30 and it's one of the things we are arguing for, except the fact that non-combat skills also level you so you might end up being actually weaker.

So what you are are saying is that your second playthrough brought different challenges than your first? Sounds like replayability to me!

just glanced through this and from what I can gather, they are not leveling by skill set? for example

if I level up stealth/lockpicking very high but leave my combat skills low (block, armor, 1H attack), then I should get harder locks to pick and more people I have to sneak by. I should not get harder people to fight in combat.

Is this not how they are doing it?

Okay, so the main thing is that "it makes leveling obsolete?"

Untrue.

First, not everything is fully scaled, heck if it's anything like Oblivion, the stats of monsters won't be touched at all.

Second, there IS a point of leveling up and that is, you know, BEING STRONGER.
No, it's not just about how fast you can kill the next guy, it's how many options you have. The higher your level, the more options you can have.
You cannot cast the strongest of spells on level one.


And if you want to kill bandints in one hit, you can still do that, go back to the place where bandits gave you trouble last time, because levels are fixed after you've visited them they'll be weak.

So you call me a troll yet you had to spend a paragraph clarifying what you really meant? ok. Now you have "clarified" what speed run and perferct run means to you I would suggest you change the word "run" to "play through" to stop people thinking you are doing D2 MF runs or WoW speed runs. Run in gaming usually means to get from A to B as fast as possible.

On to level scaling. I actually enjoy it because I am not pressed to follow the main story until I want to. I can spend days or even weeks puttering around exploring shrines and keeps, safely knowing that when I get to 30 or 40 the main quest will still challenge me.

The same enemies with greater amounts of hp and more damage is not a factor of replayability for me. Game "punished" my character for leveling up non-combat skills. Since it "punishes" it's own content it's more like a factor of non-replayability.


You get levels from any skill - enemies become stronger the more levels you have. I guess no.


I mentioned the troll thing just in order to show you how you acted there for a while
Indeed run is the wrong word, my bad.
What if the last parts of the main story line were so difficult that it required you to be around level 40? And random challenges in the game for 50+ for those that want to continue after they finish it.
It may sound restrictive in theory, but in action it would be a far more refined gameplay experience "working your way to the top in order to save the world."
Imo it's the way it should work. Dragons would be much more overwhelming too. Bandits would stay bandits. Immersion would be better. You could still explore freely, it does not have to hinder the open world aspect.

I was open to their new level scaling system, it sounded like it could work out. It clearly did not, so I'm going to have /agree here that Bethesda should stop using it completely in all of their games from now on.

It's sad with how epic they made dragons in this game, that they ended up a total disappointment once you realize you can easily defeat them with no special effort and at a low level.


Game is still great, but deeply flawed just like last two TES games.

I think the problem is knowing about it, that's what breaks the immersion.

I think this is done more seamlessly in Skyrim than previous games though, which helps you not to think about it. I do kill some stuff with one blow, the kind of creatures that probably don't scale past a certain level. And I do feel too weak for some areas, probably because they're special encounters that scale and then add some levels on top of that, or the whole area has a minimum level that is still above your own. I don't know the actual mechanics behind scaling in this game but it seems well done for the few hours I've played.

This. This. 1000x this.

Hey guys, I raised all my combat skills to 100, but I can't make a potion worth a spriggan's [censored]. What gives? Why do my fireballs svck?

Everyone has different thoughts on what makes a game great. I LOVE the level scaling because roflwafflebaconstomping things is NOT entertaining to me. Hell after I got my assassin to dagger sneak perk, dual wield, and Dark brotherhood I dropped him because 1 shotting anything I can sneak up on is boring. You would say "well you took the time to skill up, prepare yourself and should you should be rewarded as such" I would say "Wow while I was doing this were they just sitting around circle jerking??"

You are complaining because you didn't raise your combat skills and the combat became too difficult. That's as it should be. Blacksmiths made weapons for knights and soldiers. If all you raise is your non-combat skills, you will suffer in combat. It's called common sense. If you want to fight, and do well in combat, raise your combat skills. If you want to spend all your time making potions and weapons, stay out of the dungeons. It doesn't get much simpler. I have two characters, and the difficulty has been scaling appropriately. So much better than Oblivion's system. I spend some time developing one or two supporting skills, such as blacksmithing, to support my combat skills, and I have seen great benefit from doing that. Crafting superior weapons and armor helps my warrior become even better at using his 2-handed and heavy armor skills. My mage benefits from the mana and health potions he brews to support his magic skills. Can he take the damage my warrior can? No, that is why he has a zombie and a follower. He knows his role.

I didn't realize mobs increased in level.

Does this mean the Giants will always 1-shot me?

That's not at all an accurate anology, potions don't start taking more ingredients when you level your other skills. You don't suddenly have an increased chance of failure when making potions. You don't die when you eat an ingredient because your alchemy level wasn't high enough.

Enemies DO start taking more damage to kill even when you level skills which don't deal damage, they DO deal more damage to you, you DO have an increased chance of failure compared to when you were level 1.

Alchemy is relatively static in it's effectiveness(barring the enchanting/alchemy stacking exploit), while combat skills will become less effective when you reach higher level, even when you aren't raising them.

I admittedly haven't gotten very far in this game yet, but I have been focusing quite a bit on non-combat skills (blacksmithing is my highest skill) and haven't found the game to be that hard (default difficulty). It seems to me that the level scaling might well be broken if you vastly outpace your combat skills with non-combat skills, but if you take a more moderate approach the game seems to be ok to me.

It seems like the game is trying to let you know that you may be creating a bad build by placing some of the higher level materials in places with high level content. That being said, I can see how the game would've benefited from separating combat and non-combat skills. As it is now I do feel the need to balance my non-combat pursuits for combat perks, which I don't mind as I prefer a more balanced style of play.

The system could've been designed better, but it's not nearly so easy to break as the OP suggests IMO.

Level scaling is essential to a game like this. If you level up, concentrate on getting really powerful then the game becomes too easy. What's the damn point if it isn't even a bit challenging?

No, i DID raise combat skills too. Why is everyone assuming the opposite. As i already have said, like you, i had 3 supporting skills. Smithing. Alchemy, Enchanting.

Anyway, did you make 2 characters to see the actual difference? One with these skills and one who did not raise them? Because from my experience the one who has not raised them at all is even "stronger" than the one who has...
Meaning that raising these skills penalised me more than it benefited me. I discovered this by mistake but as another one said now " i know it's like that that's why it svcks". Tbh i wish i had not discovered this at all.


Yea sure let's ban levels altogether and then let's name it an rpg >.>
It can still be challenging WITHOUT level scaling as hundreds of other rpgs out there.
In what level of difficulty are you playing btw mr challenge lover?

No, don't listen to Bleak, level 5 bandits will stay level 5 bandits, unless there is a MQ, or Radiant Story reason for them to be higher, dungeons and regions have level ranges (i.e. 15-20, 35-40, etc.), once you enter a dungeon let's say your a level 15 entering a dungeon with the level range of 15-20, then that dungeon will lock forever at 15, meaning all loot and enemies that respawn in that dungeon for the rest of the game will be level 15. For regions it's quite similar, but there is a difference, if you leave a region of let's say 15-20 level range, and come back at level 35, the same old level 15-20 enemies will still be there, but there be a few new spawns of mobs around your level of 35, to keep that area relevant. Unless of course there's a quest that requires mobs to be a higher level, but we're not sure on that yet.

Well,

I haven't played much yet, but I have noticed a slight degree of level scaling. Mostly? I like it!
Dungeons that are supposed to be challenging, remain so because the enemy that used to be called "Something" is now called "X Something" Where "X" is some sort of badass word that makes them seem even more terrifying!

Of course, I understand when preparation seems wasted and progress seems impossible, but I just haven't faced the issue.
But yes, generally, it seems dangerous to focus on non-combat skills. Perhaps it should have been like in good old runescape classic, where you have a total level and a combat level, and then have the level scaling progress after the combat level? But no game designer here.

Apart from that, the only level scaling I've noticed is the occasional random encounter, where this random traveller who insulted me and then duelled me to the death was actually carrying some pretty neat stuff, but that seemed logical as she was supposed to be an adventurer. The bandits remain as poorly equipped as always, and so do the mages.

If I should point to something that I could consider a problem, it would be how easily certain quest lines are completed with the right tools.
I think I can mention that it's possible to join the mage's college in winterhold and the companions without spoiling anything for anyone.

A certain event in the companions quest line granted my character certain "benefits" (depending on who you ask) that made the rest of the quest line pretty easy.

I found that simply not using spells to complete the quest line for the mage's college worked much better than trying to "wizard" my way out of tricky situations, or to put it plainly, Sword-to-face worked better than fireballs.

To be honest though, I don't see any problems with the level scaling. I have an easy time chopping my ways through the endless lines of enemies, and I am yet to join one of the major factions of even fight my first dragon.

Vs. currently when things vary between ridiculously easy and completely impossible? When leveling up skills up makes your character less effective overall?

It is not essential. It could be good with some level scaling, but they didn't limit it enough. More enemies need max levels and more need minimum levels.

Could also be good without level scaling - by letting the player use their incredible powers of evaluation and assessment to chose NOT to fight a Dragon when they're level 3. They could still have a challenge at high level with some enemies, like Dragons.

Problem is, with level scaling overdone, as it is currently, the feeling of progress just isn't there. You should never feel like you were better of not raising a skill because it'll end up making the game harder.

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