I did listen to it, and the only thing I heard was those damn elves dont they know I have a war going on?
Thats as racist as a parenttelling a child that needs help on their homework, damn kids dont u see me cooking supper! Hes annoyed but not racist.
What dmg? All he complains abput is gasp not having money to fix the places up because again gasp! Because the guy was under the assumption like most people here that because ulfric didnt bend over backwards for people living there for free and not payong taxes, he was a racist. Ever wondered why ulfric was gunho over protecting the nords? Maybe it had something to do with their last kimg not protecting them orrrr maybe the nords were paying taxes and ulfrjc was doing his duty and whats hes paid for and protecting them? mmmmmm
The other jarls are under the assumption or guessing, hell their not even sure if he is in it just for the power. But thats difficult to answer or clarify because I also think hes in it for the power because he needs power to change things. Is wanting power to change things bad? And if u play thru the civil war, hes doing whats hes always said he was gonna do when he came to power. Is wanting and working towards a promotion so u can get to the top and make the place abetter place wrong?

No, they are not assuming. Dengeir of Stuhn knows exactly who Ulfric Stormcloak is. He is only in it for himself. The jarls aren't going take sides just because they "assume" things.

Personally I like General Tullius more, he is intelligent, charismatic, and collected. He seems like a very practical person who emphasizes duty over honor, that it is our responsibility to do what we do. Ulfric is a very interesting man as well, but honestly he just feels like another honor and glory type nord who just happens to be a bit better with his words than most.

Tullius , he is the profesional general here, , he doesn't care about politics he just carries out orders, he is your standard imperial genaral as in our own history during the middle and late roman empire , who is loyal to the empire but who can wields significant political power when he wants to or need to

Ulfric on the other hand is a powerhungry short sighted fat nationalistic pig that cheated is way to power and only wants more power for him alone , i really dislike talking to him

No their gonna take sides because they was forced and sent great big chests full of money, which even the steward in whiterun and jarl admits. It isnt fact, its their belief. Either they cant understand why ulfrics doing it because the genedal population has been breed to always follow the leader which ulfric isnt or thats something they tell themselves to reassure themselves that they are being with the right people or it could be fanaticism. U know its really funny because ulfric and all the stormcloaks say that when ulfrics in power, talos worship ban will be lifted, thalmor will be hunted instead of them hunting talos worshippera, rid skyrim of the empire, take the the battle to the thalmor, and prepare and strenghten the country........mmmmmm he does and is starting to do pretty much everything he said he would when he came to power. Thats very strange, that the jarls are not as omnipotent as the city guards..mmm

Sorry for sarcasm, its morning and havent had coffee, I give you all permission to flame me myself for my attitude becasue on phone and to tired to edit. Point is, he needs power to accomplish bis goals and when he gets the power he does what he said he was gonna do, im aorry I cant see the sinester plot behind all of that when u side with freeing skyrim and making it indepdent and he does exactly that...what is it?

I did a bit of lore reading, and it turns out Ulfric is the one that forced all of the dunmer to live in the Grey District, which wasn't called that until he did this. And also the rest of that conversation is about how the dunmer in Windhelm, the capital city of the hold he is supposed to be looking after, are not happy about the war and would rather ulfric focussed on improving windhelm. Also ever wondered why he didnt have the money to fix up windhelm, maybe its because "gasp" he was spending it all on a war that apparently a lot of HIS people were unhappy about. And what does he exactly do when he becomes high king that he promises

Restore Talos worship, not exactly hard is it?

Improve the lives of the people, well lets have a look at that: (SPOILERS)

• The grey quarter is still abismal
  
• Whiterun still has unfixed damages
  
• Markarth is now under control of the family that was using the forsworn against it
  
• Falkreath is in control of a man who thinks everyone around him is spying on him

As well as this, if you talk to galmar, you find out that not only has he sacrificed the wealth and the lives of Skyrim's population over the civil war, he wants to sacrifice more by attacking the Summerset Isles (although this might just be Galmar)

Did you actually play through the Imperial questline? He leads the final fight against Windhelm, just like Ulfric leads the final fight against Solitude, so in game they are shown fighting an equall amount of time. Is Ulfric just hiding behind Galmar? Furthermore Tullius is in charge of all the imperial troops in Skyrim, he can't be out in the field for every minor assault. Furthermore he's a lot older than Ulfric, and seems to be more of a strategic planner.

I'm for Ulfric Stormcloak. He's power hungry pig that learn the Voice. Only down side to him is he is racist to non-Nords (IMO).

Yes, but most are being radicalized by how they are threated by the empire/the nords. In the city you here young people are running off almost every day to join the Forsworn, they are doing this because their land has been taken away from them. I'm not going to defend their radical behavior as it is now, but most of their terrible acts is obviously caused by how their people have been threated through the ages.

I just find Ulfric extremely annoying and unreasonalbe where as not perfect Tullius is much more reasonable.. I find Ulfric such ajerk that my stormcloak characters ned to be played in very small doses if there's any interaction with him.

Now I wont dispute you on the jarls but I will like to point out that the empire has about the equal amount of bad and corrupt jarls also.
Whiterun, im gonna chaulk that up to bethesda either leaving it like that for a poor immersion attempt or just basically just forgot to add refresh code to it seeing how it stays the same damage with the imperial side as well.
Now onto the ulfric forcing the dunmer to the grey quarter I havent found that since I was under the impression that he was the one who got the argonians outta of the city. I thought the book from a dunmer was writtwn well ebfore ulfrics time when it stated the dunmer themselves seperated themselves from the population seeing how they were appalled that the nords didnt adapt to their culture and expeccted the dunmer to adapt to theirs. Ill have to look it up.

Also, I think the stormcloaks were for the first time since getting my ass handed to me by a nakid nord in morrowind a true charectorasion of the nords. The lore states that they are battle hearty, so ferouses in the fighting it instills fear in most raves against nords. its a dosent surprise me at all and actually makes me respect them more for taking the battle to the thalmor first instead of waiting for a first atk. Its coming weither they want it or not, and they are taking the first strike.

Also AZ far AZ ulfric getting the argonians outta the city, it gives no reason so depending how what you want it to be, u could say he went with popular demand or he was actually protecting the dunmer from argonians since the whole hist war thing or maybe just to prevent any problems. People see and hear what they wanna believe, I take things witha grain of salt until I look it up.

I will say this, me personally ATM I have no problem whatsoever with ulfrics actions or charector, I really cant wait to see if Bethesda expands or gives more details to that piece of paper in the embassy.

ok looked thru all my sourses and i cant find where it states ulfric placed the dunmer in the grey quarter, i may have overlooked it, but i have found where its stated that the dunmer feel likes it got worse when ulfric came to power and the civil war started but thats alrdy been explained by many people. also would like to state that even if ulfric is removed, the reason why the argonians are not allowed in the city is for thier protection and safety, so that maybe why they were tyaken out of the city to begib with, i dunno.

Ulfric for sure, I find Tullius so damn boring...

Not likely. There's no reference in the game anywhere that I know of that says this. The Dunmer were probably given the Snow Quarter at the time of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument (which you can read at the Refugee's Rest tower outside Windhelm). So the reason they are in a separate enclave is because they were granted land in Skyrim "untithed to any thane or hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire except as writ in the Armistice of old wheresoever those might still apply." And that is also why they are not Ulfric's first priority, because they literally are not his people. He's not conscripting them or taxing them for his armies because he can't, but that also means he's not going to spare troops or civil funds for their affairs. They're supposed to be taking care of these themselves.

Ulfric did, however, make the policy of the Argonians not being allowed inside the city- according to the Argonians on the docks.

Yes because they are in a war- with the Thalmor, who are in collusion with the empire as far as Skyrim's interests go. Ulfric is prioritizing. You don't start renovations on the front porch when the house is burning down.

You know about the Thalmor, right?

They are in collusion with the Empire as far as the Empire's interests go too. Do you really think the Empire likes the Thalmor?

Lemme tell you a IRL tale... about the WWII allied top brass. About their dread. Their dread of the notion of a land invasion of Japan. Despite the fact that the Japanese armed forces were in more tatters by the day in the latter parts of the war. Why? Fear of a fanatic population that would take up arms against them.

Despite the fact that the Imperial Legion was in better shape than the remnants of the Dominion Army, none of the Legions were in any shape to mount a counter-invasion against an island nation filled with fanatic civilians. So they got stuck with the unpleasantness of the White Gold Concordat.

Ulfric seems to have this notion that only Skyrim is chafing under these conditions. Couple that with his blatant abuse of the Thu'um, specifically violation of the Graybeard creed of "Speaking Only In True Need"... and I don't think I want Ulfric anywhere near the throne. Yeah, he says it was wrong... Too bad, he still did it anyway. Despite the fact that he was a far more capable combatant by all other regards. He abused a power to make an example (that example being Regicide).

I wonder how many people chose Ulfric and the Greybeards (if you know what I mean).

I absolutely despise Ulfric, Far too power hungry for me.

As long as Legate Rikke is at Tallius's side he has my support, I can't help but like the silly sod.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Bk7XzagcA&feature=g-vrec&context=G273d9b3RVAAAAAAAAAQ

Dengeir is a psychic? Amazing. The stormcloaks really will be unbeatable then.


Lokir: You can't do this, we're not rebels!
Imperials: *ignore*
Lokir: Oh, I guess I'll just stand here and let you kill me then.

http://www.imperial-library.info/search/node/reachmen

Doubt that'll change your mind, you completely ignored the last bit of evidence too.


If your enemy is worse off than you, then don't make a treaty, or at least make one that makes sense. You don't have to be constantly attacking just because you're at war. The WGC is a conditional surrender. Dominion gives up nothing, and has no terms against it, while the empire has to cave in to multiple demands of the dominion.

Ulfric attempting to make allies out of High Rock certainly shows that he doesn't think Skyrim's the only one suffering. Ulfric doesn't have to follow "The Way of the Voice" it's not some law of skyrim. It's the current philosophy the greybeards are going by, but they used to be a warlike group too. He notes he still doesn't use it lightly, but he doesn't agree with their philosophy wholly.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/White-Gold_Concordat

read

What about it? An opinion article on a freely editable wiki is not really proof. The empire crushed the entirety of the cyrodiil invasion force and the hammerfell invasion force drove out the thalmor there on their own. The thalmor didn't have overwhelming forces, even the imperial scribe that writes the great war acknowledges that the dominion was weaker.

Cyrodiil can see to itself, then.

Ha! I am the Dragonborn. I can go anywhere. Seriously though, you hit on an important point here. It is not a question or "reason" for me. It is an emotional thing. The opening scene was well done and it induces an emotional reaction. For me, when I am wrongly accused of something, that induces an emotional reaction of anger and revenge. The opening scene triggered such emotions. So you are right, that no amount of reason or logic would change my mind. It would take something else for me to forgive Tullius.

If, when I first appraoched Tullius in Solitude, long after the opening scene, he appologized for my treatment at Helgen and offered me his neck, I would forgive him and spare his life and I might start listining to logic and reason at that point. I am not saying I would fight for the Imperials necessarily because the Stormcloacks position is not without logic and reason behind it.

But I cannot get to that point of being able to look at the situation logically because on an emotional level, I could never forgive Tullius unless he made some grand gesture of appology, like offering me his neck, which is never going to happen because Tullius is an arrogant fool who cannot comprehend the magnitude of the mistake he made by allowing the Dragonborn's head to be placed on a block under his command. So, I will contintue to fight for the Stormcloaks on every playthrough just so I can bring the Imperial Legion to its knees.

They cannot put me back on the block if I kill them all. I am the Dragonborn, after all, imbued with the power of the Thuum by Akatosh. Now that I have discovered my power there is no way the Empire would be able to put me back on a block. Maybe Akatosh sent me here to cleans the world of the bad Imperials? It is not for us to reason why.


Its no cooincidence. I can recite the introductory paragraph of Moby dike by heart, and while I empathized more with the whale than any of the humans in that book, I totally empathized with Khan when he uttered those as his last words. While I like Kirk as much as the next guy, Khan had every reason to want revenge and as Khan uttered that quote as his last words I found myself secretly wanting him to win. I typically relate more with the bad guy than the good guy in morally ambiguous movies.

The imperials on the brink of collapse, a good part of tamreil is on the precipice of a dark age it seems.