Ulfric's an ass and it shows during Season Unending. Dengeir of Stuhn brings up some good points about Ulfric, despite siding with him.

Tullius is respectable. I really don't get why people blame him for anything. You showed up on a cart, so even though you aren't on a list, it's natural to assume you are there for good reason.

Originally, I preferred Ulfric. On that wagon on the way to Helgen, Ralof was a pretty likeable character and I instantly loved the Stormcloaks. Ulfric on the other-hand was unable to speak... but I figured he was the same as Ralof.

But after playing for a bit, I began to realize Ulfric was a selfish bastard and [censored] of a man. I liked his fake cause for the Civil War, but I did not like his intentional cause.

This is what I'm getting at. Currently the empire consists of a beaurocratic mess of a council that only considers Cyrodiil's interests and an emperor who's either complicit or too afraid/disheartened/apathetic to do anything about it. These are the people that decide what the legion does. The imperial city is in trouble? Abandon the entirety of Hammerfell immediately.(Thankfully the legion general there disobeyed his orders, he saved not only hammerfell but probably Cyrodiil as well with that one move.) You can clone an amazing athlete but if you give it the brain of a three toed sloth you're going to have disappointing results.

I like the Legion, most of it's generals seem to be competant and well disciplined. (Tullius needs to learn to hold his tongue sometimes though) I dislike the current Empire.

The PC was caught while crossing the border in the same spot where Stormcloaks were fighting Imperials and Ulfric was captured. It's natural that they took you for an enemy. It's called war and noone ever said it's fair.

Tullius needs to hold his tongue? I think it's the other way around. I never heard anything insulting from him. And what he says about Nords and their pride is not an insult but harsh truth.

Crossing the border isn't an offence, so you were probably guilty of something. The Stormcloaks were captured at Darkwater Crossing but I don't believe you were there as well. I could be wrong. Even if the PC is innocent, it's just a case of wrong place wrong time. Can't really blame the Empire for it. Anyone could have made that mistake.

I like Ulfric better than Tullius. Wish he could figure out a way to win his war without going after Balgruuf because I like Balgruuf better than all of them combined, but there is no way I can like a bureaucrat like Tullius, not even a little bit.

He's no better than that female captain who tried to cut my head off in the beginning of the game for no good reason. I just cannot forgive stuff like that. Down with the Imperials I say! Kill them all and let the Gods sort them out!!! (Yeah, I tend to hold a grudge when someone tries to cut my head off -- I'm really not forgiving that way).

Ulfric, not much to say that hasn't been said, also Tullius came off as a dike, which he proved to be.

How does a *possible* wrong conviction warrant the destruction of a faction? You think they are just going to let you walk? Also how is Tullius a bureaucrat?

Like I said, I am not very forgiving of people who try to cut my head off for no good reason. So yes, I do think that warrants destruction of the Empire, at least from my perspective. To quote an old Klingon proverb, Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I am going to roll up one character (an Imperial, who I will roleplay as someone who wants to advance through the Legion to eventually rule the Empire) who will eventually do the Imperial side of the civil war, but every other character (and I have like seven of them) absolutely loaths the Empire because they tried to cut off my head for no good reason.


No, I expect that they will throw me in a dungeon until they can sort it out.


Soldiers are just bureaucrats with weapons. Giving orders, following orders. Armies are bureaucracies. That's the whole problem with why they wanted to cut my head off in the beginning. Bureaucracy run amuk.

Also, all this about him being racist I never got, and I'm an Orsimer through and through. Also, never forgave him or that general.....

I don't like neither, but what really annoys me is how the Empire calls the headsman for everything... the guy opened a door for the winner of a fair nord challenge> Headsman.... caught in middle of the road during an Empire raid on Stormcloaks> headsman... I don't like Skyrim, nords or Ulfric, but the Empire has gone way too far now... the lack of a true Dragonborn ruler took its toll.

http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=52

Seems appropriate

I like Ulfric more but I support Tullius in terms of factions.

I like Tullius more than Ulfric. Ulfric seems a bit disconnected.

He didn't challenge him to fair combat. He just killed him and went home. Only killed him to prove a point and that was it. As far as the Imperials are concerned, it was murder and I kind of agree.(well, technically Toryyg accepted the challenge, but there really was no point to dueling at all)

Wait a minute. How can you say it was murder and then say that "well, technically Toryyg accepted the challenge"? If Toryyg accepted the challenge then how can it be murder?

Purely on first sight (and meeting them in their respective cities), since I never sided with either camp yet: Tullius. He sounded rational, unable to comprehend the Nord's culture and pride, but trying to understand it. Of course he's arrogant, but what leader isn't? Ulfric on the other hand is very passionate, but his words sounds so ... irrational. Pride and honour is fine and dandy, but staking hundreds of lives only for that is utter idiocy imho. He's too passionate, too swayed by his emotions, and thus not a good leader in my eyes.

In fact, those two are exact opposites of each other. And in truth, I'm not thrilled by either one of them to lead Skyrim. We need a third person, who possesses a greater balance between rationalism and passion, and doesn't lean so much to the extremes. ALL HAIL THE DRAGONBORN. Lol.

Blame Nords and their honor. Torygg said he knew he'd lose, but what choice did he have? If he declined, Ulfric would paint him a weakling and a coward. That could possibly have worked against the Empire. Torygg knew he was doomed either way as soon as Ulfric challenged him

Being in the military, I am definitely going with Tulius, He is a great and honorable guy. He can't be to blame for anything, mainly speaking, because he is only carrying out orders. Ulfric on the other hand is selfish and greedy, He may say he wants to be king and have skyrim for the nords, but in reality, he just wants the power.

ulfric anyday. tullius is a dike and most of the arguments against ulfric (racist/just wants power) are easily disproven (he hasnt put down the filthy dunmer [or the great argonians for that matter] and is much to busy to handle it/there is absolutly no proof he is just making a grab fo power under a false cause) or could even be made into a good thing (the empire has already lost the second great war before it has even begun so if ulfric is jsut making a grab for power, which he isnt, that as just something someone made up, he would probably do better than mede did). ulfric is also much more charismatic and interesting

THE KING IN THE NORTH!

To change things on a countrywide scale for indepdence u need power. U need the power to make a change, and u need power to sculp the reform. So yes, ulfric is seeking power, how else is skyri gonna be free and stand on her own feet? Someone has to be on top to organize and see it done. Ulfrics responsible. Would it be better to start a civil war and win it, then turn around and tell everyone..ok ur countrys structure is gone and theres a power vacoule..peace! Im glad were all free, now time to go fishing.....
You see it as personal gain, bit really where is it mentioned or what action does ulfric do that makes it seem he kust wanting the seat of power just for the sake of it? After the civil war, hes all lets rebuild and prepare and then lets go thru the thalmor!
Ulfric is a man with a vision and goal, and to make that vision and goal a reality he has to be at the top weilding the power.

The Empire is a declining institution trying to keep it against a major rebellion, not only in Skyrim but in every other province... so each and every little attitude is meant to echo through Tamriel, what makes everything a lot overreacted... but this is not an excuse to svck, and the Empire in Skyrim svcks, leaving behind its very founder just to keep their cyrodillic castles and coin is stupid and they will pay dearly. I forsee an Aldmeri Dominion dictartorship very soon for the people of Skyrim will fight the Empire and both weaken thenselves. Ulfric's motivations are sincere and seems to me better than give up and get eaten by a fish that then will be eaten by an even bigger one.

Well, but if Torygg had declined, he'd still be alive, which is why I don't understand how people can call Ulfric a murderer.

Torygg chose to accept a challenge he knew he would lose rather than be branded a coward, so I can see how people would call Ulfric a right bastard for putting Torygg in that position, but I don't get how people can call Ulfric a murderer when Torygg was the one chose death over dishonor.

Viking warrior king > boot-licking functionary of a dying empire

Both are sort of [censored]s, but Ulfric is my kind of [censored].