How long is are forum going to be divided by this nonsense, cant we all respect are opinions?

Hi there Lyn1964. Hope you're enjoying your Thursday.


The ultimate argument: Ulfric's voice acting is soo much better than Tullius'.

Well, it's true, the contrast couldn't be more obvious. Haven't you ever been inside an Imperial fort? Unlike those dirty rotten Stormcloaks, they have hot showers and scented soap and everybody brushes their teeth twice a day. And their poop buckets smell like the inside of a Yankee Candle store. Which is really unnecessary because everybody knows that Imperial **** don't stink in the first place.

NOOOOOO DO NOT INSULT MICHAEL HOGAN!!!!!!!!!!!

You will burn, rebel scum!!

I have something of the same issue when it comes to taking a side and I often end up defending the side who seem to be the "losing" the thread(ny losing I mean the one who seem to be pushed more on the defensive).

A few things I seem to argue a lot is the Empire supposedly being a puppet, Ulfric wanting ethnic cleansing and the like. Something else I find funny is how people chose to interpret the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric to mean that either side is better. The Dossier says both sides winning will hurt the Thalmor, not just one.

What's wrong Imperials? Can't stand the sight of a strong Nord King taking control of the province and removing all opposing factions?

Milkdrinkers.

Okay, I won't, provided the goal of his performance was to make my character feel uninspired and under-appreciated and me as a player feel like taking a nap and then reloading a save from before I made the mistake of locking myself into a questline that would require me to interact with him on numerous occasions.

I know he's beloved by many for the VA he's done in other games, but I haven't played those games so I feel no nostalgic attachment to the sound of his voice. It may have been part of the plan to make Tullius less interesting, I don't know, they obviously didn't bother to give him the same kind of depth or backstory that Ulfric got. I can't fault Hogan for something that may have been an intended result of the direction he was given, but the VA is what it is regardless of the reasons and it does nothing to make me warm up to the Legion side of things even when I'm playing a character created for precisely that purpose.

I know! Sometimes I wonder if people even has read it.

Tullius has plenty of depth, like despite him very snide, he truly cares for his men and hates the Thalmor. If you listen to his speech he also dislikes Politicians, the problem is YOUR not looking for the depth he actually has. Also when Rikke mutters "Talos" guide you, he responds saying "What was that legate?", it's obvious that he heard her. Also during the siege of solitude when Ulfric confirms that "The empire might not be villians but there not hero's" Tullius agrees.

And I take it you consider yourself intelligent? The one guy who takes my bait every single time? haha

Yeah thats one thing that bums me out. Tullius really seems to agree with Ulfric's notion of "attack the Thalmor now, stop wasting time". But he's sworn service to the empire and isn't about to turn his back on them. He's fed up with all the politics in the IC, but knows his hands are tied until they finally get their collective asses into gear.

He doesn't have nearly the amount of info on his background that Ulfric does though.

I'm not saying my avatar's crazy, but my avatar's crazy.

By "depth" I meant a backstory that would shed light on his character and motivations. From what I've seen, he has none unless you want to fill in all the blanks yourself. At best I see him as a loyal and capable soldier who is just doing the job he was sent to do, despite the fact that he would rather be doing something else (i.e., fighting alongside any willing ally against the Thalmor). Those things may be honorable and admirable but they're not unique to his character; you could say the same about Hadvar or Rikke. We don't know what inspires his loyalty to the Empire, we don't know where he came from or how he got where he is or why he believes the things he does. IMO Ulfric is given far more depth in that regard than any of the other major players in the CW storyline.*


*And as anecdotal "proof" of that, I would point to the number of threads that are started about, or end up revolving around, the extreme reactions of many players to Ulfric as a character, compared to the relative lack of similar threads with Tullius as the focal point of discussion. Ulfric inspires a lot of love and a lot of hate, with Tullius it's more like "I support the Empire and he's their man in Skyrim so I'm on his side." The personal element just isn't there in the same way.

I'm actually in favor of the Empire. I learned something today that changed my opinion, I'm upset with them, but I'll fight for them. Happy, Cider?

I am happy at least. Happy that people are willing to change their stance and accept new information

A subquestion I think is important to ask: Laila Law-Giver says she doubts Ulfric will bring in the golden age his followers think he is, and both Balgruuf and Sybile Stentor says the goods from the Empire is important to the Nords. What will hapen to the economy if Ulfric wins?

It might hurt it a little in the beginning, but it won't have any long lasting affects. Just look at the United States, I'm sure the same was said for them. Yet, after breaking away from their Empire, they became a super power. Not to bring real life affairs into the debate, just using it as an example.

That wouldan't have happened if the British wern't to busy to send men over from Europe, if Britain wasan't occupied at the time, they would have CRUSHED the rebels.

We're talking about economics, America went on to prosper and become allies with Britain. Perhaps the same could be done for Skyrim and the Empire.

Then again with all of markarth's wealth staying in skyrim instead of a good deal of it going to the empire, they'll have the funds to barter with. Despite the secession, the EEC remains in business too.


I think if the conflict was real I wouldn't join any side per se. I'd rather try to mediate the groups into an agreement.(Why wasn't this an option for us speech heavy characters, beth, whyyyy?) It'd be tough though.

A unified Empire has a better chance of standing against the Dominion when a Second War breaks out, and let's face it, there WILL be one.

You do know that Torygg didn't like the idea of skyrim being part of the empire, right? Plus a leader's strength comes from the heart and soul, as well as wisdom and many high kings of skyrim have shown this and have been supporters of the empire, Torygg was strong in spirit but weak in stature which doesn't mean he was unfit to rule as high king.

But still many strong leaders have been in the empire and even Titus Medes II was a strong leader and shows this when he pushed the dominion back and wielded Goldbrand in the fight of Red ring road which was the turning part of the war, to be granted Goldbrand by a Daedra lord who favors fighting more then anything is a great honor for both a leader and a warrior.


Its nice to know you actually gave it a bit of thought


I imagine Tulius was a great General and managed to help win many battles and when off duty he probably isn't as strict as he seems, I can see him being a nice guy towards his soldiers as well and he did manage to help win many battles for the imperials during the Great War but it really is a shame they didn't give him as much of a back story, I agree with that but him swearing loyalty to the empire isn't such a bad thing, he is fighting for what he believes in and loves, the same thing Ulfric is doing.



Well yea, both sides reveal that they plan to attack the dominion.

You mean Ulfric's independent Skyrim? I doubt a land ravaged by civil war will stand a chance.

Tulius reveals a plan to attack the dominion its just not as well known as Ulfric's plan due to the fact that the Imperial plan for a second war with the dominion is on a need-to-know basis.

Haha, I'm still not pleased with the fact that the Bretons were not punished, but it's best for the Orcs if the Empire stands.
Plus there is a new Orsinium between Hammerfell and Skyrim, only mentioned during a loading screen and Hadvar comments about the pc's remains being sent to Orsinium, just caught it last night.
So, taking all that into consideration, I support a united Empire. Though I can sympathies with the Nords of Skyrim, but it's probably for the best this way. At least until the Dominion is taken care of.....

So, death to the Stormcloaks!