The discussion yesterday on Tdriod's thread got a bit... heated; this is a continuation. Please explain which side you support and why, and also you opinion of the civil war in general.

My Opinion

I support the Stormcloaks and oppose the Empire for a number of reasons. By allowing Elsweyr and Valenwood to fall to the Aldmeri Dominion and doing next to nothing to assist Morrowind and Orsinium, the new Empire has failed to win my approval. They further disappointed me with their actions in the Great War. The Empire valiantly fought and defeated the Aldmeri Dominion Cyrodiil, annihilating all of their forces, and the Redguard Alik'r Warriors put a dent in Lady Arranelya's Army (the Largest Aldmeri army) when it was crossing through the Alik'r Desert. Following the Battle of Red Ring, the Empire decides to negotiate a peace treaty. Yet, after such a great victory, they end up signing the White Gold Concordat, which is almost a carbon copy of the ultimatum presented to Mede some 5 years before the war. If the Aldmeri Dominion was able to conquer Cyrodiil, they would have done it. In the end, the Dominion was just as weakened (if not weaker than) as the Empire from the war. The Empire was in a great position to negotiate, but they didn't. Instead, they created the White-Gold Concordat:

-Disbandment of the Blades (the Empire's spy network).
-Banning of Talos worship.
-Large portion of southern Hammerfell are ceded to the Aldmeri Dominion.
-The Aldmeri Dominion is allowed to move throughout the Empire, unrestricted and unquestioned.

The only thing that can justify agreeing to these terms is if Mede II overestimated the Aldmeri Dominion and believed them to be a much larger threat. This is the most plausible explanation, and I believe it is due to the Thalmor purging the Blades out of Alinor. By doing so, the Empire doesn't have a reliable source of enemy intelligence; they wouldn't know their tactics, plans, manpower, etc.

Hammerfell opposed the terms, and the Empire was forced to renounced it as a province. And so began another war, this time between just the Dominion and Hammerfell. In the end, Lady Arranelya's weakened army and whatever reinforcements it received fought an indecisive battle with the Redguards. They were ultimately forced to withdraw from the country. But what does that say about the Aldmeri Dominion? It shows how weak they truly are. They are unable to hold onto their own territory; and they enthusiastically accepted the WGC because they aren't strong enough to defeat the Empire.

However, this brings me back to the White-Gold Concordat. The WGC essentially turns into the Empire into a puppet, and puts them on a great disadvantage for the next war. The WGC allows the Dominion to gather vital political and military information on the Empire, there is no doubt that the Thalmor have planted countless sleeper agents within the Imperial infrastructure. Furthermore, it allows them to slaughter the population; yes, I said slaughter (have you visited a Talos shrine, recently?). They claim that they are rooting out Talos heresy, but they don't need much proof to go on (what is the Empire going to do about it?), as witnessed with Thorald Gray-Mane or when encountered a squad of Justiciars yourself. The Empire may not agree with it, but they are going to powerlessly allow it to continue.

With this armistice, the Empire is playing the waiting game with the Dominion and the Thalmor, and if they keep it up, they are eventually going to lose. While rebuilding is essential if they want to have any chance of defeating the Aldmeri Dominion, they are doing it under unacceptable circumstances. If Skyrim becomes independant, it becomes openly hostile against the Aldmeri Dominion. The WGC no longer applies to them. While I do not think Skyrim alone is enough to destroy the Aldmeri Dominion, I suspect Skyrim will form a confederacy with Hammerfell and possibly High Rock. The WGC will apply to none of these nations, and they are a lot less cosmopolitan than Cyrodiil, making it exceedingly difficult for the Thalmor to infiltrate their higher echelons.


What are your thoughts on this?

Stormcloaks. Why? If there are two morally ambiguous sides, I pick the underdogs. Always.

I always kill both of them. Take out any camps or patrols I see.

Soon there won't be any left to have a Civil War.

They call me the Peacemaker!

It's too bad the camp leaders are immortal. I really hope they change that with a future patch. Always fun slaughtering Imperial camps as a Werewolf or Vampire Lord, or with the help of Duhrneviir/Odahviing.

Would you say its fair for one to say that it makes sense that Imperials are Vampires and Stormcloaks are Werewolves?

If you elaborate a bit more on that, I'll give you my answer.

I support the Empire, because as bad off as the Empire has gotten I don't view the Stormcloaks, specifically their two leaders, as any kind of worthy replacements for Skyrim.

Conniving Eagle you have an awesome avatar, I love that guy he so funny when I see him on shows. I honestly have to laugh at everything he says because of his hair it makes him look crazy.

I prefer the Imperials, even though the Stormcloaks are nicer to you on the road I think they are idiots.

Stormcloaks because I don't like what the Empire has become since Oblivion.. I'm going to try the Imperial Legion at least once to try to understand the Empire better, but with it being the way it is right now I don't see how it can take on the Thalmor. It has a lot of flaws both in and out of itself and while the Stormcloaks aren't any better in some aspects, there are some interesting points I've seen mentioned a few times that puts the Empire in a bad light.. although this is somewhat true of the Stormcloaks as well. With Skyrims history the way it is, I can kind of understand where the Stormcloaks are coming from.

I've been a strong Stormcloak supporter since I started playing the game, but there are times where I feel a little conflicted on things. I suppose I'll keep reading these threads and see where my thoughts go on the matter.

I meant would you say its fair for most vampires characters to be Imperial..Imperials (lol) and most werewolves to be Stormcloak Nords?

Just fits for some reason in my mind.

Imperials for me, I feel their army is more organized and better trained within the game and I also feel that when another war with the Aldmeri Dominion breaks out it will be easier for the opposing nations to organize themselves and fight together if they are under one banner rather than separate nations just having an alliance.

Stormcloaks, because of reasons.

Imperials, because of better reasons

Hello De1taG!


I think it just might possibly be more honest if we acknowledge our preferences are pretty much irrational, instead of trying hard to come up with elaborate reasons to camouflage them. Still, there are a few objective motives that would make me swing to the Stormcloaks' side: A ) It’s called an Empire for a reason. It occupies and governs territories at the cost of national sovereignty B ) It’s an incompetent occupying force which can’t even manage to maintain its forts and roads nor keep city outskirts safe C ) It handles political dissidence with either torture or a death sentence.

Anyone who backs the Empire doesn't value freedom.

Stormcloaks all the way.


So true. I mean, what is the deal with thieves holding all the forts along major roads?

There are good reasons for both sides and there are good reasons against both sides. I might be more in favor of the Empire, but I don't know.

On a side note: No matter what side you are on two things is universially true: Ulfric is very skilled at playing the Skyrim political game and Tullius is a very skilled general.

The Emperor made a mistake signing this oppressing White gold concordat. The only real reason behind the Thalmor wanting the banning of Talos worship was to provoke this civil war in order to make the enemy weaken itself, because they feared that if they unite, they could defeat the Thalmor. Nevertheless, this is also a reason for not joining the Stormcloaks, as they do exactly what the Thalmor want them to do. The point Im trying to make is that both sides are not acting in the right way, but I understand the Empire not wanting to risk so many lifes in an ultimative war. The Elves are shortly before hegenomy, the only way to stop them is when the other countries stop their conflicts and fight together against one common enemy, that is the Thalmor and by all means NOT the Empire.

It's the internet, no one cares about rationality

I vote the Empire. If you read through the files in the Thalmor Embassy, they want the war to continue, but Ulfric is considered an unwilling Ally and the Thalmor secretly fund the Stormcloaks. The Thamor know that pece will not last. The White Gold Concordat was used for the Thalmor to recover from the Great War so they could strike again from inside the Empire itself. When the war starts back up, who do you think has a better chance of defeating the Thalmor? A bunch of smelly (YES. THEY SMELL) unorganized Stormcloaks or a united Empire with the Warrior Prone Nords at their side once more?

Plus everyone I ask in the game says they are smelly drunks that cause collateral damage to inns a taverns and want all races besides Nords to leave Skyrim and never come back. To me, the Empire stands for equality, while the Stormcloaks stand for elitism.

Anyone who back the Stormcloaks doesn't value intelligence.

Empire all the way.

I thought the Nords wanted the Empire gone from the land? So when there is a lack of Imperial presence, bandits and brigands take over. I guess that's what the Nords want.

In principle I agree with the reasons you stated, however at the end of the day I (as a player, not "I" as my character) play the Stormcloak side because I find it far more fun and entertaining. I played the Legion and was bored out of my mind before I even got near the end of their side of the CW questline. I'm on what is probably my third or fourth SC character now and still perfectly happy to play out the CW that way. I don't play games to be bored, I play them to have fun, and being another cog in the Imperial machine is not my idea of a good time.

Oh and also they tried to cut my head off. Not the best way to make a good first impression and inspire undying loyalty.

Having played through on the Legion side and won the war for the Empire, I can tell you that when it comes to bandits and brigands the difference between an Imperial-run Skyrim and a Stormcloak-run Skyrim is essentially nil. It's not like the Legion wins and then starts clearing the land of outlaws and other dangers to civilized society in a way that has any noticeable effect.

Hi there implantedwall14. How's life?


Accusing revolutionaries of being smelly, that's a mighty indictment. You got me there. It's also interesting to point out you forgot to mention the Thalmor are playing a double game. They support both sides.

If the conflict was real, I don't think I could pick a side. Both sides has pros and cons. Maybe I lean a little towards Stormcloaks (I've noticed I tend to defend them in threads like this), despite their nationalistic agenda, that really isn't my thing in real world politics.

In the game, though, I find it much easier to go with the Stormcloaks. Sure, they have their issues, but I just like them better. And I admit: I just love Ulfric, with his good sides and bad.

Hi there Da Bomb76!


You might want to quote and respond to the appropriate post, as mine sure isn't the correct recipient of your opening sentence. The empire, an occupying force, can't even manage to perform the most basic duties of an occupying force, keep security, which means Skyrm's inhabitants get none of the benefits of being occupied but still suffer all of the drawbacks.