Interface Change (PC)

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:29 pm

Please rephrase. My issue is that there is no difference between [the item you are hovering over] and [the item you have scrolled to].

The item you are hovering over is highlighted by the brighter font color. The item you have scrolled to is also highlighted by the brighter font color, but at the beginning it is also highlighted by either having a bigger font (inventory) or by having a little icon next to it, indicating that it's selected. Unfortunately, these can become detached, and you'll suddenly only have the brighter font color to indicate what's selected.

Um, what? There are separate sections for types of items.

No, there aren't. The only sections available are 'Chest', and then your personal inventory.

As opposed to having several different buttons for the actions you can do to items in a chest, which is worse design.

To begin with, you have to select the chest before you can take everything out of it. If you select the chest, you most likely have the intent to take things out of it. If you go into your inventory, you'd likely have little need to take things from the chest from there - and if you did, the chest is only a few presses or a click away.

I have no idea what it is you're trying to say here.

That's pretty much personal preference, though - you can keep the take and store buttons the same, or you can keep the use button the same.
Maybe Bethesda should make that an option.

Or you can make it so the take/store button is never the 'use' button and allow people to use items directly from containers. Having the Take button be the same as the Use button, and the Store button be the same as the Take All button, is simply bad design. I very, very frequently go into a chest to sort things out, store a bunch of stuff, and then go back into the chest to grab one thing I accidentally put in there - and then take everything in it. Hugely annoying. The game shouldn't be designed in a way where this happens all the bloody time.


What do you mean, no information about anything? They tell you the item's stats! What else is there to tell? And... waste space? They fill the screen! The only space wasted is in the gaps between items, and even then that's hardly much. Sorting would be useful, though.

The inventory menu does tell you the item's stats. All it tells you is the item names. You have to scroll over the item to see stats, and even then it only shows a minimum number of them; weapons have more stats than just 'damage', 'weight', and 'price'. Further, the spell menu should tell you what the spell does when you double-cast it.


Wouldn't work - remember, you can equip things onto either hand. (Shift-E for left hand, by the way).

Yeah, but you could just press a modifier key to have it equip stuff in the left hand, and leave it as-is to equip stuff in the right.

Huh? It works that way for me.

I changed the Favorites menu to Mouse Button 4, rather than the default 'Q'. I suppose this might be why I can't close the Favorites menu by pressing the button again, but it's still bad design.
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I love YOu
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:30 pm

I have Flash CS5 and consider myself pretty adept at it. I've been using it since v5

I just spent the last hour or so playing around with some decompiled fla's but I've had nothing but CTD's or broken menus trying to modify anything that has any fonts/text. I've tried just changing the selection color in the containermenu and even just decompiled the DialogueMenu and did a straight export [even tried publish settings] and it breaks. It's either something to do with the decompile or the export [publish] - though the cursormenu mod works fine [which is what leads me to thing it has something to do with the dynamic text fields].

Things I've tried:

-publishing versus exporting - as2 for f9 / f10 = no difference

-moving all dependent files alongside the modified swf = no difference - in fact, I can move the bsa extracted swf into the data folder without all the dependent files and it works so needing the dependent files is still up in the air but it doesn't seem to be a necessity. [unless you've modified them, of course]

-accepting versus canceling the fact that I don't have those fonts used - the swf's [from what i can tell] have a font dependency on another swf, so whenever I open a decompiled fla, I get the warning that the font [which I don't have] will be mapped to a system font - this could be the problem - I haven't investigated this just yet. However, since the swf don't seem to need all the dependent files it seems unlikely that I just have to move the fonts_en.swf into position... It might be that, along with the creations kit, we get some fonts so we can properly publish fla's. [but all that is just a guess]


PS

If anyone knows what file the HUD radar [at the top of the screen] is, kindly share (:
HUD code is nowhere to be seen.

You're hitting pretty much the same issues I am. Fonts are in fonts_en.swf. I haven't yet checked for ttf versions of these - I don't even know if I need to. Very confusing stuff this.

I'm not using Flash though, so I can't be sure if the software is handling the files correctly. It seems to add a layer on export too for some reason. At this point I'd just like to decompile and recompile without issues.
Here's the program I'm trying out: http://www.sothink.com/product/swfquicker/
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Nathan Barker
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 11:28 am

I've yet to run into a menu I can't use the mouse in. Have you considered clicking on things before saying they don't work? Dragging them? Maybe trying them twice in case you missed them the first time? Even the "ENTER Accept TAB Exit" buttons work through the mouse when you click on them. The only thing I'd like to see a mod fix is the spacing - maybe make the text smaller, too.
This simply, straightforwardly is NOT the case for me. I don't know what magical version of the game you got, or if it's actually some sort of brand/driver issue, but I simply CANNOT click on things in menus. Yes, smartypants: I tried twice. THREE times, even! :o
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Taylor Bakos
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:14 am

It might be hudmenu.gfx in the interface/exported dir. Since Skyrim seems to be using Scaleform we'll likely need the Flash extension [from my limited UDK experience] which might come with the CK.
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:10 am

Also, current difficulties aside, I almost wept with joy on seeing Darn here!

If it makes you feel any better, Darn, I've been modding the crap out of balance and settings since Morrowind, and I also can't find 99% of what should be here. Things that seemingly HAVE to be game settings (always have been and only make sense to be) can't be found in GMSTs anywhere, or GLOBs, or scripts, or anywhere else. SOMETHING has to hold the variables... :headscratch:
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Kellymarie Heppell
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:53 am

HUD code is nowhere to be seen.

You're hitting pretty much the same issues I am. Fonts are in fonts_en.swf. I haven't yet checked for ttf versions of these - I don't even know if I need to. Very confusing stuff this.

I'm not using Flash though, so I can't be sure if the software is handling the files correctly. It seems to add a layer on export too for some reason. At this point I'd just like to decompile and recompile without issues.
Here's the program I'm trying out: http://www.sothink.com/product/swfquicker/

You do need .ttf versions of the fonts. At least, I do. I've actually done nothing since release but try and obtain them (they arent available in the game files)

If it helps, here's what i did to succesfully swap fonts

Use FOMM to unpack Interfaces.bsa
Use Sothink Decompiler to export fonts_en.swf to .fla
Open .fla in Flash Pro CS5.5. All fonts are set to Arial because I dont have Skyrims fonts in a useable format.
Manually select a new font for each of the 12 text symbols and embed the chosen font (I used a variety of random fonts, just to experiment), setting a family name.
Export as .swf
Edit 'fontconfig.txt' to have the new family name chosen. For example, I replaced Futura fonts with Centaur, and I named the font family Centaur. In fontsconfig.txt I have something like " map "$EverywhereFont" = "Centaur" Normal "
use FOMM to repack Interfaces.bsa
Hexedit bytes 5 and 14 to 68 and 00
And prestochango, it works.

I believe the HUD code is in interface\exported\hudmenu.gfx, but I've been unable to open it. In theory http://www.modsrus.com/wiki/doku.php?id=dow2:formats:gfx is what you need to do to fiddle with .gfx files, but hexeditors crash when I try and open it.

Edit: Or not. Hexeditor opens them now. I suppose I'll play with it a little. Meanwhile if anyone has a way to get skyrim fonts in .ttf format, I'd be much obliged. Currently I have to either use the default fonts which make me cry, or have all ingame 'gibberish fonts' like daedric and dragon script replaced with a regular alphabet.

Yarp, hudmenu.gfx is all the stuff. Map icons, level up notifications, radar and all that. Hexeditor lets you treat it just like any other .swf file, so yeah, still flash to mess around with things. I svck at actionscript currently, so I cant do much with it right now. I'd love to put enemy hp down in the middle of the screen though...
There are quite a few "unknown 0" lines in the misc. tags folder. So there is that.

Wasnt exactly sure where to stick fonts_en.swf in the data folder, so I just stuck with repacking the bsa myself. I loath the original font anyways, I'll neeeever go back!
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Leilene Nessel
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 3:59 pm

It might be hudmenu.gfx in the interface/exported dir. Since Skyrim seems to be using Scaleform we'll likely need the Flash extension [from my limited UDK experience] which might come with the CK.
That's it. Do you need Flash to use that stuff? I looked into Scaleform with Borderlands and Dragon Age, but didn't have any luck. DA has the only UI I'd actually like to enlarge. :)

Also, current difficulties aside, I almost wept with joy on seeing Darn here!

If it makes you feel any better, Darn, I've been modding the crap out of balance and settings since Morrowind, and I also can't find 99% of what should be here. Things that seemingly HAVE to be game settings (always have been and only make sense to be) can't be found in GMSTs anywhere, or GLOBs, or scripts, or anywhere else. SOMETHING has to hold the variables... :headscratch:
Heh. Maybe they use the UI for settings like me. :D

You do need .ttf versions of the fonts. At least, I do. I've actually done nothing since release but try and obtain them (they arent available in the game files)

If it helps, here's what i did to succesfully swap fonts

Use FOMM to unpack Interfaces.bsa
Use Sothink Decompiler to export fonts_en.swf to .fla
Open .fla in Flash Pro CS5.5. All fonts are set to Arial because I dont have Skyrims fonts in a useable format.
Manually select a new font for each of the 12 text symbols and embed the chosen font (I used a variety of random fonts, just to experiment), setting a family name.
Export as .swf
Edit 'fontconfig.txt' to have the new family name chosen. For example, I replaced Futura fonts with Centaur, and I named the font family Centaur. In fontsconfig.txt I have something like " map "$EverywhereFont" = "Centaur" Normal "
use FOMM to repack Interfaces.bsa
Hexedit bytes 5 and 14 to 68 and 00
And prestochango, it works.

I believe the HUD code is in interface\exported\hudmenu.gfx, but I've been unable to open it. In theory http://www.modsrus.com/wiki/doku.php?id=dow2:formats:gfx is what you need to do to fiddle with .gfx files, but hexeditors crash when I try and open it.
Flash Pro is a no-go. You shouldn't have to repack the bsa; If things work like they used to, you just put the files where they belong in the Data folder.
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Nany Smith
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:56 pm

hahaa, DarN disappears for an entire year just to show up again for Skyrim. How appropriate. :D

Welcome back, ya old dog!

Yes Welcome back. glad you're OK. Hope to see awesome work from you in the future. if you change your mind on the donations I'll pony up a donation (like 5-10$) for the tools
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Sierra Ritsuka
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 2:36 pm

Yes Welcome back. glad you're OK. Hope to see awesome work from you in the future. if you change your mind on the donations I'll pony up a donation (like 5-10$) for the tools
Thanks fellas. :) I'd like to try to solve this without resorting to donations though.
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Donald Richards
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 3:54 pm

I have an idea about my font issue... brb
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Anna Kyselova
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 6:52 pm

Thanks fellas. :) I'd like to try to solve this without resorting to donations though.

I'm sure many people in the community will contribute to speed the process along though. It's shocking how terrible and unintuitive the UI is for anything but a gamepad.
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Leticia Hernandez
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 1:31 pm

Just wanted to chime in and say it is great to have you back DarN. Your work on Oblivion were fantastic and I hope you among others will polish Skyrim to its rightful glory. (Something that Bethesda sadly should have done themselves...)
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Soph
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:14 am

Well, given the fact that the menus are now in Flash format, this should open up possibilities for other budding modders to take a crack at it. What's greek to me at this point is probably clear as day for a Flash developer. :)
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Josee Leach
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:36 am

Well, given the fact that the menus are now in Flash format, this should open up possibilities for other budding modders to take a crack at it. What's greek to me at this point is probably clear as day for a Flash developer. :)

Well you can't blame us for wanting you to keep up the support for us lowly pc users who don't need ultra big fonts with itty bitty windows to read them in. Your UI's optimizations are mandatory for me to play Oblivion or Fallout, and I (among many others) like the style you design them with. If you never make one for Skyrim then so be it, but a UI optimization could not come out soon enough.
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kirsty williams
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 11:58 am

Okay my idea didn't work out so hot but I think it helped clarify things. The issues with CTD/borked text is likely not related to missing fonts. I made some new fonts [based on some simple windows fonts] and renamed them [as well as the truetype labels/security] as the two main fonts used in my two test files - $EverywhereFont & $EverywhereMediumFont so at least when the fla's were opened in Flash, it didn't throw a warning about missing font nor did it then replace it with standard systems font upon export.

However that made no difference in the game - the dialogue menu was still fugly and the containermenu still CTD'ed. So, while not really 'progress', I think that at least tells me that it's not a Flash missing font issue. [of course it could still be a Flash export issue]
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keri seymour
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:10 am

Well you can't blame us for wanting you to keep up the support for us lowly pc users who don't need ultra big fonts with itty bitty windows to read them in. Your UI's optimizations are mandatory for me to play Oblivion or Fallout, and I (among many others) like the style you design them with. If you never make one for Skyrim then so be it, but a UI optimization could not come out soon enough.
Don't get me wrong - I'd love to make this. It's the only way to get it exactly the way I want it to be. :)

Okay my idea didn't work out so hot but I think it helped clarify things. The issues with CTD/borked text is likely not related to missing fonts. I made some new fonts [based on some simple windows fonts] and renamed them [as well as the truetype labels/security] as the two main fonts used in my two test files - $EverywhereFont & $EverywhereMediumFont so at least when the fla's were opened in Flash, it didn't throw a warning about missing font nor did it then replace it with standard systems font upon export.

However that made no difference in the game - the dialogue menu was still fugly and the containermenu still CTD'ed. So, while not really 'progress', I think that at least tells me that it's not a Flash missing font issue. [of course it could still be a Flash export issue]
Did you actually redo fonts_en.swf and embed the new fonts?
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Fiori Pra
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 2:14 pm

Did you actually redo fonts_en.swf and embed the new fonts?

I did not.

This was about getting flash to stop throwing the missing font error and prevent it from compiling the flash with the dynamic text fields swapped to system fonts - than actually changing the fonts.
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willow
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:06 am

Okay my idea didn't work out so hot but I think it helped clarify things. The issues with CTD/borked text is likely not related to missing fonts. I made some new fonts [based on some simple windows fonts] and renamed them [as well as the truetype labels/security] as the two main fonts used in my two test files - $EverywhereFont & $EverywhereMediumFont so at least when the fla's were opened in Flash, it didn't throw a warning about missing font nor did it then replace it with standard systems font upon export.

However that made no difference in the game - the dialogue menu was still fugly and the containermenu still CTD'ed. So, while not really 'progress', I think that at least tells me that it's not a Flash missing font issue. [of course it could still be a Flash export issue]

I've given up on converting .swf to .ttf, so I'm building the .ttf files by hand to fix the missing font complaints, so I'll post those eventually. Almost done with dragon, and I'll work on mage script sometime or another. How are you loading the custom fonts? Are you rebuilding the .bsas, or sticking them in the data folder? The cause of CTDs with no error message that I've run into has been missing resources, so perhaps it is still missing font issues, one way or the other? I believe the text files in font_en arent useful for anything other than human examination, so it shouldnt matter if flash is exporting that wrong. The only thing left is the embeded fonts and the embeded fonts names, so as long as you're embeding fonts, naming them, and using only defined names in fontconfig.txt, I would think it would work crash-free
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Siobhan Thompson
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:01 pm

Yes Welcome back. glad you're OK. Hope to see awesome work from you in the future. if you change your mind on the donations I'll pony up a donation (like 5-10$) for the tools
Count me in too - seeing DarN back here gives me heart. OB is unplayable without DarNify, and I haven't even bought Skyrim yet because I guessed it would be another lazy console port.

Do Bethesda even think about PC players any more? Or do they just expect the modding community to finish their work for them?

Grumbling over. Back to FCOM to cool off for a bit.
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Queen Bitch
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 8:52 am

Thanks fellas. :) I'd like to try to solve this without resorting to donations though.

Awesome that you're back DarN :D I think you know how much we appreaciate everything you do :hugs:

Do Bethesda even think about PC players any more? Or do they just expect the modding community to finish their work for them?

Grumbling over. Back to FCOM to cool off for a bit.

I know, it's annyoing :confused: That said, I'm glad modders are fixing this.
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Richus Dude
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 8:06 am

I've given up on converting .swf to .ttf, so I'm building the .ttf files by hand to fix the missing font complaints, so I'll post those eventually.

That would be great.

How are you loading the custom fonts? Are you rebuilding the .bsas, or sticking them in the data folder? The cause of CTDs with no error message that I've run into has been missing resources, so perhaps it is still missing font issues, one way or the other?

I'm not actually trying to change the font - just get Flash to stop throwing the error that the font is missing and having it replace it. The replacement font gets exported so there's no way around it unless you have the font it requests. So that's why I made some dummy fonts - so when flash loads, it sees the font is there [by name] and doesn't replace the dynamic text fields in the file with system fonts replacements. It shouldn't matter what the actual font is, it's not getting embedded into the file, that's what the font_en.swf is for. At least, that's my theory and probably why that swf is so big - all those fonts are embedded into that file rather than each instance of a text requirement across multiple files having to have their fonts embedded.

Of course I'm just talking out my butt here, I don't know any of this for a fact...



I believe the text files in font_en arent useful for anything other than human examination, so it shouldnt matter if flash is exporting that wrong. The only thing left is the embeded fonts and the embeded fonts names, so as long as you're embeding fonts, naming them, and using only defined names in fontconfig.txt, I would think it would work crash-free

That font_en is definitely needed - that's where they are embedding their fonts. The fontconfig.txt is what is referenced for the .as files to associate the 'embedded' fonts in font_en with an actual true font name. Quick example;

ItemCardFadeHolder_mc.StealTextInstance.PercentTextInstance.htmlText = ""

So, looking at the fontconfig, we have:

map "$EverywhereBoldFont" = "Futura Condensed" Bold - which equals in the actionScript - movieClip.movieClip.movieClip.dynamicText = "Futura Condensed" Bold [plus some formatting]

So they can reference "$EverywhereBoldFont" [from their variable fontlib which is equal to "Interface\fonts_en.swf"] from any flash file and it will display the embedded "Futura Condensed" Bold font from font_en. You can change that to be "SkyrimBooks_Handwritten_Bold" Normal font and it will work fine in the game - you'll see the different font where ever "$EverywhereBoldFont" would be referenced in an swf - however - you can't change "Futura Condensed" Bold [the actual font name in fontconfig] to be a font that is not first embedded in the font_en - say, a font installed on your computer. You'd have to first go in and chang font_en and embed that new font into the flash file for "$EverywhereBoldFont" If you don't embed a new font into font_en, you get the blank-block characters if you just try and reference a windows font.

At this point I don't think this is a font issue - embedded or not. Unless you want to actually change the font [which you do] then there would be no reason to start embedding fonts into other files, they'll just get necessarily bloated. [look at font_en its huge]

So, the problem I think I'm having is something other than flash font importing/exporting issue. Which, and again I'm just talking out my butt here, was dealt with when I gave flash the proper pointers to prevent it from changing the font in the import/export. The fact that it crashes without actually modifying anything straight in and out of flash tells me there's something else going on.
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KRistina Karlsson
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 12:58 pm


Do Bethesda even think about PC players any more? Or do they just expect the modding community to finish their work for them?


They do consider PC players, but they can't seem to understand that we want to use the mouse and keyboard, not a gamepad or 360 controller. That and UI testing seems to have a very low priority.

Let's keep the pvssyr down so this issue can be worked out with minimal need for new threads (because of the post limit). I'm sure we all support the effort and many of us (myself included) would gladly express this support through a donation if it comes to that. In the meantime, let's see what these guys can come up with.
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BaNK.RoLL
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 7:56 pm

That would be great.



I'm not actually trying to change the font - just get Flash to stop throwing the error that the font is missing and having it replace it. The replacement font gets exported so there's no way around it unless you have the font it requests. So that's why I made some dummy fonts - so when flash loads, it sees the font is there [by name] and doesn't replace the dynamic text fields in the file with system fonts replacements. It shouldn't matter what the actual font is, it's not getting embedded into the file, that's what the font_en.swf is for. At least, that's my theory and probably why that swf is so big - all those fonts are embedded into that file rather than each instance of a text requirement across multiple files having to have their fonts embedded.

Of course I'm just talking out my butt here, I don't know any of this for a fact...


At this point I don't think this is a font issue - embedded or not. Unless you want to actually change the font [which you do] then there would be no reason to start embedding fonts into other files, they'll just get necessarily bloated. [look at font_en its huge]

So, the problem I think I'm having is something other than flash font importing/exporting issue. Which, and again I'm just talking out my butt here, was dealt with when I gave flash the proper pointers to prevent it from changing the font in the import/export. The fact that it crashes without actually modifying anything straight in and out of flash tells me there's something else going on.

Yeah, I'm not great with terminology, havent played with flash before. In fonts_en there are font symbols and text symbols. I dont know what purpose the text symbols serve. They're basically just textboxes made in flash. Dunno. But yes, embedded fonts are the font symbols, which are what I'm playing with. I finally got everything sorted out, as far as that goes so I can swap fonts at will. You're definitely correct about $Fontbla=bla, and all that. Those are calling the font symbols in fonts_en.swf. I guess I'm not clear what you're trying to do/doing thats causing issues, but make sure the variables in fontconfig.txt are set to equal the actual names of whatever dummy fonts you used. S'part that took some trial and error for me to figure out, with the not knowing flash. When a font is embedded in Flash Pro, it has an arbitrary name you define, a family name, and a font name. fontconfig wants the font name, not the others. All I can think is that one of the font names in fontconfig.txt isnt embedded in fonts_en. Might not be helpful, doesnt sound like you changed any of that.

Mostly just celebrating my success at swapping fonts. Still have to create Falmer, Mage Script, Skyrim Symbols, Skyrim Unreadable, and maybe one of the book fonts though, if I want to retain all those as Bethesda designed them. One of the book fonts wasn't custom made though, so perhaps the other one wasnt either. I'll probly look for that, for now. Remaking fonts is tedious.
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Adriana Lenzo
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 8:00 am

Mostly just celebrating my success at swapping fonts.

Celebrate, definitely. We need it as there is very little of that going around atm. (;
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Alan Cutler
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 1:05 pm

I hope no-one minds me chiming in, but for me the highest priority is the container interaction.

It's not at all intuitive, and I have to save the game before trying to store my alchemical ingredients in case I accidentally eat some instead of putting them in the container - this should not even be possible, but I ended up turning my PC off in frustration last night because I couldn't use the mouse when in the container menu to put items in the container - it's completely mad, and trying to store ingredients for later use is nothing short of frustrating. When I have to reload a save it should be because my combat tactics were off, not because putting things in a chest has become a frustrating "mini-game" with a risk of failure!

I don't know whether this can be fixed as I have no idea what is involved, but it is a huge issue as things stand at the moment.
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BRAD MONTGOMERY
 
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