I don't know about all of you, but after reading all of this, Tuesday can't come soon enough.

I'd suggest throwing several types of people into the Hand: the sadistic loonies, the well-meaning do-gooders, the mercenaries, the secretly something-elses... and allowing that internal tension to be the biggest part of their story.

It would also be worth considering how - depending on the way the balance between those plays out - this might shift their interaction with the Companions, particularly since several of the Companions would also like to be rid of their lycanthropy.

I don't think it's a good idea to go with "Storm Jorvasskr!" as a plot point though. While the Silver Hand might feel justified in doing so, and might even be capable of pulling it off, it would also mark them as a major threat to public order and to the Jarls, and would probably result in the Legion/Stormcloaks cleaning them out, either during or after the civil war.

Agreed. And also, this entire discussion is something I'm tracking and keeping in mind when I begin to write the latter stages of the quest line. And in addition, the player will be able to talk to all of the named characters introduced in our mod outside of the quests to gain some background and insight into who they are as well as their own personal motives for joining the Silver Hand.

They are mercenaries of a sort, yes. They won't willfully take a job that they know will harm innocent people, though. They wouldn't have the reputation they do if they worked like that. They're not the Dark Brotherhood.

They already do.

But again, the issue is how indiscriminate the Silver Hand is. They kill first and ask later. If they were so concerned about the Companions being werewolves, why not bring the evidence to people in authority, or make such evidence public? They instead attack Companion members in secret, without full knowledge of the situation, and attack anyone who gets too close to their hideouts.

It seems part of the idea behind the quest line was that the Silver Hand were no better than the animals they were trying to kill. It really stinks how poorly written the quest lines turned out.

Given what's seen of the SH, it doesn't seem as though they're open to communication. Kodlak seems to be the first that wants to get rid of it, but by then the hostilities between the two groups is beyond talking.

The best reason why Silver Hand want to kill you when you come to their base, is because they have already been attacked by Skjor and you are coming at them with Aela at your side - both Circle members of the companions, and since we know that they assume that everybody involved with the Companions is a werewolf or someone as guilty as them, we know that they aren't defending themselves for no reason. Skyrim has a problem of enemies shouting generic taunt lines, so if Draugr could talk they would scream "Skyrim for the Nords". Silver Hand should get their own line "Die foul beast", but since they appear only twice or thrice in the game Bethesda didn't bother to waste disc space to add such customization of enemies.

Except they attack even if you've not joined the Companions and never been to Jorrvaskr.

Oh, too bad I didn't find their secret base before joining the Companions to know that. To not break your immersion you will say that they are evil bunch which is true from this perspective, however we all know why Silver Hand is scripted as a common bandits with different name and silver weapons - adding option to meet them and talk to them, get to know them would add depth and develop them as characters, and since the Companions aren't Dark Brotherhood we have to kill nameless thugs.

All quests in Skyrim treats player as an idiot - even when you're Archmage your subordinates doesn't explain you any of their research in case you wouldn't understand them. The Companions have it even worse - they send you to beat someone up and say "you know what to do" afterwards. As far as I know I might have split woman's kidney to get a ransom for the Companions.

Thanks for bringing that up. It always bothered me how easily you could be come the head of an organization. As Boromir so boldly puts it http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35xavk/. I have to talk it over with @ohsorryoldhorse about how we want the conclusion of the silver hand quest line to go. But you can be sure that if you do become the silver hand leaders, there will be plenty of justification for being there. But we might not take that direction. I have a few ideas rolling around in my head that i have yet to throw @ohsorryoldhorse's way. Also if you do end up becoming the silver hand leader you can be damn sure that the NPC's will.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkcZilKChI&feature=related.

Just wanted to add: The argument about 'how many lives were saved because they are werewolves' just doesn't wash. The Companions weren't always werewolves. And there isn't a single mission for the Companions that requires anything more than good old fashioned steel.

No, no one other than the Circle (and probably the maid) knows about the wolfishness - that's stated outright by the Circle themselves. And with all the flunkies always hanging around, there's plenty of MANpower for anything the Companions would be hired for. And if noone but the Circle knows, then no one is going to hire the Companions for a job only werewolves could accomplish.

Additionally, Aela and Skjor both love their wolfishness so much, they are willing to give up an afterlife with humans for one with animals. I'd say they'd gone wolf. Their attitudes actually remind me alot of the folks making werewolf-enhancement mods - I WANT MORE POWAHH!!! Everyone seems to be totally ignoring the fact that Skyrim werewolves are not some cool clique from a teen movie - they are men and mer who have been horribly transformed by disease into creatures without conscience or control, who are greatly feared and shunned. Especially to the super-superstitious Nords!

That the Companions have learned how to control it makes no difference. It actually makes it worse. They consciously infect themselves with something that REQUIRES them to feed on their own kind. Saying it's not cannibalism is like - well crap, it IS cannibalism, no matter how you slice it. Werewolves are NOT a new species, they are all still men or mer. If they weren't, they couldn't be cured!

While I agree that playing as a werewolf needs revamping, I am damn glad someone is taking he Silver Hand in hand, because all these "be-a-werewolf-as-long-as-you-want-with-turbo-power-too!" mods are really getting on my nerves. I have yet to see a werewolf mod that is not going to make the PC so OP he'll cakewalk on master. To each his own, I suppose. Some folks play the game only for the car crashes.

On that last note, you may be interested to know about this: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/506131-wip-call-of-hircine-bloodmoon-rising/

I stumbled across that while browsing the Nexus forums after posting up a topic about this mod over there, and that to me seems like the necessary mod to change that. Granted, from looking at that, it's unknown whether or not that mod could potentially conflict with ours; here's hoping it won't. That, or people can pick and choose what they want haha.

Well, I've been very active in that thread as well - guess you could say I'm playing both sides! I really do enjoy being a werewolf in the games at times (its most fun level 15-30 or so), and I do like the Companions. But not all my characters are cut from the same mold, and most of them, if/when confronted by the Circle's wolfishness, would go the way of the majority of the population of Tamriel and freak-da-flock-out!! "Ack!! You want me to... WHAT? You are... WHAT?? GET ME OUTTA HEAH!!!!"

I want to have BOTH options. I want to be a fully-realized werewolf, and I want to be able to take down those loathsome beasts and purge Skyrim of their filth!! Rrrragh!! I WANT IT ALL!!!!!

And as the Elder Scrolls foretold the CK will be released today and thus begins the epic journey to bring justice to the Silver Hand. This day marks the beginning of the Silver Hand's rise from the needless slaughtering Bethesda bestowed upon them to fierce werewolve hunters we know they are. I hope everyone is as excited as I am.

P.S. please read the first two sentences in Morgan Freeman's voice for added effect.

Having a good blade doesn't make you invincible. And although a werewolf isn't invincible either, it does give them a greater edge when used tactfully (hence why they made a pact with the Glenmoril Witches for control of it, as an out-of-control werewolf wouldn't be that useful).

I don't mean for jobs that only a werewolf can accomplish, but a job in which being a werewolf gives a greater chance of success. Like, would clearing out an abandoned fort full of bandits be better handled with 3 or 4 warriors (like the bandits are used to fighting), or a pack of hungry werewolves designed for hunting people (that the bandits wouldn't expect and be freaked out by)? Sure, a group of warriors could possibly handle it, but there's also more of a chance for losses or serious injuries.

Werewolves are supposed to be powerful. The reason for the werewolf-enhancement mods are because werewolves are poorly balanced at higher levels (like a lot of things in the game *cough*Destruction*cough*). No, they're not "cool" to the people of Skyrim, and they are feared and shunned by most... no one really suggests otherwise. The Circle has a unique position on it, though, because they don't suffer from forced transformations and they don't have to kill to survive, unlike the ones like Sinding.

Just to pick a nit, the first werewolves are technically daedra. They were created by a Daedric Prince of his own essence, like Dremora, Scamps, and Golden Saints. A person in beast form normally loses all control to the will of a beast, meaning it's no longer the person they originally were, so it's not so clear cut what someone in beast form actually is (i.e. a person with a mutated body, or a daedric creature temporarily possessing a person's body).

Balance is a difficult thing to achieve when so much is unbalanced. A big complaint I've seen with werewolves, next to how there's so little downsides to being one, is that it's useless to be one at high levels. But without the CK and a large-scale re-balancing of everything, you can't really do much except make them stronger in simplistic ways. The werewolf mods out now are pretty much the extent of what can be done now to fix them without the CK, while mods like this, or the aforementioned Call of Hircine, are much more long-term projects that are waiting on improved tools.

Holy balls, the CK is out, and I have college at 3 Sadness all around XD

Update: The CK is in mgel.runs' possession and we have officially begun working.

Bumping this, because I'm of the opinion that this will be one great mod. But do me a favor and not have Whiterun stormed by Silver Hand warriors. Instead assassination quests a la the Dark Brotherhood would be far better, or sending a few of the best Silver Hand (aka the Dovahkiin) in through the secret exit or such.

I don't think that Silver Hand (since they replace the Companions) should become stealth fraction. Stealth mission in such manner are a roleplaying choice, e.g. there is a quest to free one guy from the Thalmar fortress and it says to sneak in and free him quality, yet if you fail at that you have the option to storm the place and kill all 1000 guards inside. This mission could as well be done by using speech and perpetuating yourself to Kardlak's quarters and or bribing the main to poison him. It could be two big part quest where first you create a distraction to empty their headquaters and then you can steal the pieces of the hammer and then kill Kardlak.

Hey guys, quick up date

I have completed the outline for the first area. the only thing is i want to put water into the area but for some reason i can only find small puddles and river animations, anyone help with placing a small pool or body of water in a cell? the way i have it now looks pretty good but i just want i'd like to know for future areas.

Thanks

Another update, from the writer of this project: Since we've started working on the mod, I'm going to drop a few more nuggets of information regarding what sort of things to expect to whet your guys' appetites:

-Approx. 10 fully voice-acted NPCs; 6 fully fleshed out individuals, with 4 fully voiced supporting characters (this last number could increase)
-15 brand new quests; 10 main, 4 side, 1 repeatable radiant
-6 brand new locations; the main base of the Silver Hand will be the biggest

Just a little something

Yet another update: me and mgel.runs made significant progress today, with the first dungeon being 95% complete except for cleaning up the navmesh and sorting out issues we're having with placing a werewolf with nothing but a pelt on its inventory. It was frustrating at some parts, and it gave me a whole new perspective on what modders must go through when making something. It was very satisfying to get something done, though!

I am very stoked about this. Good luck!

Thanks! We're still pretty new to the whole modding process, but we're learning quickly.

With still another update, we have a good portion of the NPCs created (with probably a few more to be added if need be...on a side note, I'm really annoyed that the FaceGen in the editor is less customizable in terms of the shape of the face), and we've begun work on the Silver Hand's actual main headquarters (right now we're about 10% on it). I, myself, can't wait to see how the final product shapes up and am excited that we're making this.

In terms of how we're going about this, we're saving the quests and scripting work for last, as that's going to be the hardest thing for us. Right now, we're primarily concerned with building up our locations, and getting the layouts and navmeshes cleaned up. So while we're making rapid progress in terms of locations, the hardest has yet to come. But I do want to thank everyone who's contributed to this topic and has posted their theories and basically been supporting us. It's a good motivation for me that we can accomplish this. So thanks.

When is it due?
I want it nao!

We need Silver Weapons of all kinds, and them to actually affect Werewolves.

According to lore silver weapons dont actually affect werewolves. This is something were still grappling with from a story perspective.

As for when it's due...when it's done