[jodie]

The negativity isn't appearing otu of thin air. Well...it might be for some people. But mostly there are legitmate reasons.

It's not an open world becuase the world is devided but walls. In a boxing game, the enitre 'world' consists of the boxing ring and you can go anywhere in it - that doesnt make it an open world game. KoA is a bunch of seperated areas with a main paths and a some side paths you can exploit- just like in fable and dark siders. You can't just say to yourself ' i'm going to walk east ' and then just start walking. If you want to move on to different areas - you have to follow the right path: thats not an open world.

See, I think your putting too much stock into Bethesda's open world. This game is in fact open world.

In a linear game, you move from one area to the next, with no option to deviate from that path, or choose where you want to go next. In this game you can choose where you want to go, at any time. There may, or may not be, only one path to where your going, but that doesn't make the game linear. To me, open world means choice, I choose to go where I want, when I want. And I get my ass rocked for going somewhere I can't handle, that's a consequence I'll have to deal with.

The writing is standard, it doesnt exactly stand out. It seems to me like a lot of people are willing to overlook things becuase it was written by R.A Salvatore instead of some no-name writer. I'm not saying it was terribly, but it wasnt great or compelling- it was there.

I actually had no idea who R.A. Salvatore was before I started following this game. I have never read any of his books either. I still think the story looks good, from what I've seen.

The combat is smooth but it's repetitive. You have the option to dodge and block but you generally don't have to do either unless you just feel like dragging the fight out. Comabt mostly consists of mashing teh attack button fast enough that the enemy cant fight back - unless they're strong enough to attack through your attacks, in which case it generally falls into the standard action game sequence - attack, attack, attack, dodge, repeat.

This is where your wrong. As the IGN article pointed out, the first sections of the game are misleading when it comes to combat, as I found myself in very tough fights, against wolves, or lizard-things(lolidunno), to just regular bandits. It's not so easy to just "mashing teh attack button".

The progression system is standard and they played it safe. It looks just like the progression system in Titan quest and games like it. the difference is at any point you can change your 'desitny' so you can change between a rogue, mage, or warrior on the fly- which to me (personal opinion) hugely breaks immersion.

Actually that isn't how it works. It depends on how you spend your points in the three trees. You can't just become a rogue/warrior/mage whenever you feel like it.

Immersion is a stupid word(and concept, but that's my opinion).

And lastly, yeah it's getting knocked for it's cartoon-y aspect and absolutely it should be. WoW is incrediably outdated - graphics wise. KoA looks like a disney video game, with cliche dwarves and elves. I give it props for adding blood and the occcasional gore, but that doesn't change the fact that the developers had the great Todd McFarlane on their team and they came out with mediocre graphics and steroetyped creatures. It's not really ugly to look at, i mean, they did get the graphics to atleast look smoother than WoW, but they had the abillity to really raise the bar in design and the didn't even try.

First of all, the game looks great. The textures, lighting, and animations look amazing. Secondly, just because a game looks SEMI-CLOSE to wow in terms of art-direction, it is automatically outdated?


I feel like I'm trying to explain the appeal of Fallout 3 to a ten year old who only plays call of duty. (Not directed at you Nihlys!)

[Harry-James Payne]

See, I think your putting too much stock into Bethesda's open world. This game is in fact open world.

In a linear game, you move from one area to the next, with no option to deviate from that path, or choose where you want to go next. In this game you can choose where you want to go, at any time. There may, or may not be, only one path to where your going, but that doesn't make the game linear. To me, open world means choice, I choose to go where I want, when I want. And I get my ass rocked for going somewhere I can't handle, that's a consequence I'll have to deal with.

No one's calling the game linear. Just that zones and defined pathways don't make for a truly open world. "Open" in the sense that there aren't any boundaries until you reach the edge of the map.

[Penny Flame]

No one's calling the game linear. Just that zones and defined pathways don't make for a truly open world. "Open" in the sense that there aren't any boundaries until you reach the edge of the map.

I could argue that Skyrim also has these same parameters. You can't reasonably get to the top of any mountain without following a certain path. I mean you could cool-jump your way to the top, but I'm pretty sure that's just exploiting the geometry or somethin'.

It's not an open world becuase the world is devided but walls. In a boxing game, the enitre 'world' consists of the boxing ring and you can go anywhere in it - that doesnt make it an open world game. KoA is a bunch of seperated areas with a main paths and a some side paths you can exploit- just like in fable and dark siders. You can't just say to yourself ' i'm going to walk east ' and then just start walking. If you want to move on to different areas - you have to follow the right path: thats not an open world.

By that logic, all games with any sort of boundaries(all games), can not be labeled as open world.

[Darren Chandler]

I feel like I'm trying to explain the appeal of Fallout 3 to a ten year old who only plays call of duty. (Not directed at you Nihlys!)

I wouldn't put much stock in IGN editors. They always go with the trend. Unless every video on the enternet is all from the beginning of the game - the combat doesn't change. You seemed to have missed the point of the graphics thing. Yeah, if it looks like wow- thats a bad thing. A new product shouldnt look like a 10 year old one, especially in video game standards. I said that they did get it smoother, and yeah it's more refined than WoW - infact It's not all together ugly - like i said, I'm pointing out that its all cliche. Theres no innovation or effort and thats not acceptable given the talent that they had working on it.

Like Frodo67 said, I wasnt calling it linear, i was simply stating that it's not an open world. Just becuase it gives you freedom of movement doesnt mean the world is open. As for the destiny things, according to teh developers you can change your desitnies at any point so you're not locked down. I understand you may not have known who R. A. Salvatore is, but alot of people do and fandom is can easily get in the way of realistic criticism. Again, its not terrible writing, but it's not great. It's a standard level of writing thats just kind of 'blah'. Even the first time through I found myself skipping through dialog and thats never a good thing. RPGs are generally dialog heavy so it should be able to keep your attention.

I could argue that Skyrim also has these same parameters. You can't reasonably get to the top of any mountain without following a certain path. I mean you could cool-jump your way to the top, but I'm pretty sure that's just exploiting the geometry or somethin'.

``

By that logic, all games with any sort of boundaries(all games), can not be labeled as open world.

You're being too broad. Things like Skyrim, red dead redemtion, GTA, prototype, infamous...the list goes on and on, there is one large world map where you can walk from end to end without havign to follow a specific path. in Koa, the entire world map is alctually just a collection of small area maps so even tho you can 'mostly' move freely inside of them. you cant navigate from one end of the world to the other in your own way, you have to follow the developer's path.

[Nana Samboy]

I wouldn't put much stock in IGN editors. They always go with the trend. Unless every video on the enternet is all from the beginning of the game - the combat doesn't change. You seemed to have missed the point of the graphics thing. Yeah, if it looks like wow- thats a bad thing. A new product shouldnt look like a 10 year old one, especially in video game standards. I said that they did get it smoother, and yeah it's more refined than WoW - infact It's not all together ugly - like i said, I'm pointing out that its all cliche. Theres no innovation or effort and thats not acceptable given the talent that they had working on it.

Maybe there's no innovation when it comes to art style, but there is certainly effort put into it. Besides, is WoW the only game allowed to have a cartoony aesthetic? I think that's one of the reasons WoW has done so well, because it's graphics have aged rather well. The same goes with any game that doesn't try to have a gritty/realistic style, cartoony/cell-shaded games just age better.

I don't even think this game looks that cartoony, but I've been saying that since the first KoA threads, and no one seems to agree.

according to teh developers you can change your desitnies at any point so you're not locked down.

You unlock destinies based on what skills you have invested in finesse, might, or sorcery. You don't have all of the destinies unlocked, and I'm sure it's impossible to unlock all of them.

Say you use magic, and finesse. You are a rogue/mage hybrid. You can unlock a destiny that compliments this play style. At the same time, the destinies are not meant to allow you to stop being a mage, and become a warrior with the press of a button.

You're being too broad. Things like Skyrim, red dead redemtion, GTA, prototype, infamous...the list goes on and on, there is one large world map where you can walk from end to end without havign to follow a specific path. in Koa, the entire world map is alctually just a collection of small area maps so even tho you can move freely inside of them. you cant navigate from one end of the world to the other in your own way, you have to follow the developer's path.

And that is not necessarily a bad thing. One of the advantages of a semi-linear progression is that the developer can plan around an event, since the player will only be entering from X direction(s).

[BrEezy Baby]

I still don't understand the negativity...Playing through the demo as a mage and I find it awesome. I wasn't expecting complex combat or anything of the sort. It's still fun imo, and once you get higher in the skill trees, combos become more important.

[Umpyre Records]

And that is not necessarily a bad thing. One of the advantages of a semi-linear progression is that the developer can plan around an event, since the player will only be entering from X direction(s).

No, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a thing I'm not interested in.

[Danial Zachery]

No, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a thing I'm not interested in.

Like small boobs.

[Tiffany Carter]

Ok This will be my last argumentitive post becuase things are getting confused.

To clarify, I dont think WoW is the only game 'allowed' to have a cartoon-y aspect. I don't care about that. What bothered me was the fact that it was standard, steroptypical stuff wihtout any originality becuase they had an incredibaly talented artist - who specializes in dark fantasy - working on the team. It's like having the a reliable homerun hitter on your team, batting against a pitch known for throwing it down the middle, and tellng him to ' go out there and bunt, fall back on ol' faithful cuz it's easy' .

The destiny cards aren't unlocked by feat progression, their unlocked by level progression. when you change youre destiny card you have to re-locate all the points you spent in your old one: essentially re-writing your character. You can't really do this on the fly - you have to go to a fate weaver; which are abundant throughout the game world.

I've never said KoA was at fault by not being an open world, I only clarified that It's not an open world by alot of people's standards. It's a free movement game, not an open world. Thats all. Not, ' this game suks cuz it's linear' or anything like that. I prefer open world games, but I to each their own, just like the immersion thing.

I don't think this game will really bomb, I've only acknolowdged that it's not my kind of game. All i've been doing is trying to point things out like was the case with the open world, desitnies and all that. A fact isn't an opinion and an opinion isn't a fact, I acknowledge the difference, but it bugs me when people rave over something using points that aren't correct or by comparing thigns that shouldnt be compared. Someone saying that crysis 2 is an awesome rpg becuase it lets you upgrade your character and blah blah would bother me. Not becuase it's not a great game, it is, but becuase it's not an RPG. if people want to rave over somthing, rave over something thats a fact, not an opinion trying to pass for a fact, It's the easiest way to avoid arguments so everyone can just get along.

[SWagg KId]

Like small boobs.

I love small boobs though.

Not like really small, but hand-sized.

[JLG]

Nope. PC, PS3, X360.

I take it you don't have a Bootcamp install of Windows on your Mac?

I do not. I was using the demo of Crossover for a while but now I just rely on my 360.

Again, this game is what Fable should have been. It looks gorgeous, its open-cells, just like Fable and it has beautiful looking combat (stealth and mage specifically). I will have to wait til Tuesday apparently to play the demo but this is pretty much a must buy for me.

[Laura-Jayne Lee]

Tried the PS3 demo. Combat was just button-mashing, press square repeatedly until everything is dead. Graphics were okay, the colour was a refreshing change from Skyrim's limited palette. Camera was annoying at times, and I feel like the controller acceleration could do with some work. Locations looked good, seems like the gameworld will have a lot of variety. Inventory could be better. There were numberous graphical glitches, some of them major. I think I'll buy it, but not on day one. I'll wait for it to come down below ￡20.

[Olga Xx]

Just played most of the demo.

Class progression seems linear.
Combat too button mashy.
Art direction isn't exactly my cup o tea, but others may enjoy it.
Graphics seemed average sometimes below average.
I see some parallels to DA2 and not the good ones.

If anything, wait till bargain bin.

[Mrs. Patton]

It isn't really a button masher unless you don't build up your combos. I actually like the combat.

[Penny Courture]

Demo pleasantly surprised me. Aside from the camera, everything else is very-very well made.

Got some Divinity 2 vibes. I'm sold.

[X(S.a.R.a.H)X]

The destiny cards aren't unlocked by feat progression, their unlocked by level progression. when you change youre destiny card you have to re-locate all the points you spent in your old one: essentially re-writing your character. You can't really do this on the fly - you have to go to a fate weaver; which are abundant throughout the game world.

Hmm. Perhaps I need to try the demo again. I'd swear, when I looked at the Destiny cards, they had things like "Finesse(51)/Magic(0)/Combat(0)" or "Finesse(0)/Magic(26)/Combat(26)" as requirements, based on the number of points you'd distributed into those skill trees. And I know the IGN article mentioned that you had to spend gold at a Fateweaver to re-arrange your skill trees.


And yeah, I'm another one of the people who doesn't get the hate on the graphics. Ok, sure, I can see "I expected something more 'edgy' from McFarlane." But the rest of it? I don't see crappy "low res" textures, I don't see "bad" graphics, I don't have a problem with cel-shading. Of course, I also don't agree with

WoW is incrediably outdated - graphics wise.

Perhaps the technical aspects of the engine aren't the most recent. But I think it still looks great - the art style, the aesthetic. It really works well. The number of polygons behind that aesthetic? Who cares - it looks good.

[Matt Bee]

I still don't understand the negativity...Playing through the demo as a mage and I find it awesome. I wasn't expecting complex combat or anything of the sort. It's still fun imo, and once you get higher in the skill trees, combos become more important.

I think I've said it before, but this game has the best magic system I've ever seen.

[Elena Alina]

I think I've said it before, but this game has the best magic system I've ever seen.

It is pretty cool. I only got to level 3 but still had a blast. Think I'm going to try out a warrior build now.

[Mr. Ray]

I think I've said it before, but this game has the best magic system I've ever seen.

Aside from Magicka.

[Andrew Perry]

I mean come on, its todd mcfarlane! He is incredibly talented and i think falling back on mediocre, cartoony elves and dwarves was a waste of his talent.

This x7,122

Todd McFarlane and RA Salvatore should feel and look much more epic and original than this game does.

[Stat Wrecker]

I still don't understand the negativity...Playing through the demo as a mage and I find it awesome. I wasn't expecting complex combat or anything of the sort. It's still fun imo, and once you get higher in the skill trees, combos become more important.

It`s really quite easy to understand...there are quite a few folks who don`t fancy bright, coloured fluffy WOW style RPG`s. Add the "arcadey" feel to the combat etc. 4 Race types who are nothing innovative. The demo just feels decidedly average imho.

I actually don`t understand how anyone could feel greatly excited by this game, but each to their own

I`d rate Divine Divinity DKS easily over this, even though KOA feels like a cloned attempt. I`d even say I much prefer the Drakensang series over this game, which had gorgeous colourful graphics but didn`t look like a Fable game

[Andrea Pratt]

There are quite a few folks who don`t fancy bright, coloured fluffy WOW style RPG`s.

You know WoW didn't invent that kind of art style right? They don't even look remotely similar. http://i39.tinypic.com/en77r.jpg. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l316/camtheman1993/WoW2010-06-0419-09-02-12.jpg And this is just one part of the map, how do you know the other parts aren't more dark? You don't.

The combat is not even close...

[Emilie M]

You know WoW didn't invent that kind of art style right? They don't even look remotely similar. http://i39.tinypic.com/en77r.jpg. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l316/camtheman1993/WoW2010-06-0419-09-02-12.jpg And this is just one part of the map, how do you know the other parts aren't more dark? You don't. The combat is not even close...

well for me, WOW sums up the art style quite nicely as that`s what I immediately thought when I saw the very first screens of the game when they were released. Playing the Demo only reinforced that and at times I felt I was playing Fable as well. I`m not the only person to have felt this obviously.

I admit when I first saw the Divinty series I didn`t fancy the art style with the whole oversized swords etc. but the game was actually really good (well DKS was) and it was quite original with being able to add body parts to your own "frankenstein monster", having a battle tower and turning into a Dragon etc. I didn`t find the combat great however and KOA felt similar to Divinity in that area. KOA just didn`t feel like it brought anything new or refreshing with it. It just feels like the same old stuff that`s been done before. Even the reckoning mode failed to impress me and oh yeah they added some finisher scenes with cartoon style gore. Finishers are all the rage nowadays ala Two Worlds 2, Skyrim etc. It keeps the hack`n`slash fans happy.

When I realised I could pull a shield out my back pocket, it was a case of um, okay..

QTE`s are something I also really dislike in an "RPG". I loved The Witcher 2 (now thats what I call an RPG) but god I hated the QTE`s in the game KOA jumped on the QTE bandwagon as well..

I honestly did not find the combat at all deep or rewarding, or even fun for that matter. Nothing new to it and it just felt "arcadey" in my view. I tried the Warrior style, block 3 hits in row from Tuatha Warrior, then hit X button fast until he died. Tried mage, again hit X for staff melee as quick as possible and finish any tougher enemies with lightning blast, drink mana potion as required. I didn`t find it fun.

Maybe i`m just picky these days. I mean I found Dark Souls to be overhyped garbage, while people rave about it.

Sorry KOA just ain`t my kind of RPG. I don`t like the art style, combat or races, even the story I found uninteresting. Very disappointing considering that Devs of McFarlane`s calibre and a writer like R A Salvatore worked on this game.

Feels like a standard cliched Fablesque attempt, going by the Demo so far

[Rudi Carter]

well for me, WOW sums up the art style quite nicely as that`s what I immediately thought when I saw the very first screens of the game when they were released. Playing the Demo only reinforced that and at times I felt I was playing Fable as well. I`m not the only person to have felt this obviously.

Add to that it looks little like "Morrowind", "Two Worlds II", "Sacred 2" and "Dungeon Siege III" and you're spot on.

I think one of this game's strengths is that it might remind you of a number of different titles both looks wise and gameplay wise without actually aping a single one.

Azrael
The Nord with the Sword

[Ice Fire]

I'm not getting anything near a Morrowind vibe from any of the videos or my very brief time with the demo.