Gotta love how people jump at personal insults and "six LOL nudity LOL go play xxx games HAHA LOL" remarks in a thread where the op has made it quite clear that he's referring to the general maturity of this game as in mature story, mature dialogue scripts and mature handling of the moral situations the player must deal with. On all these levels I find Skyrim rather childish and I'd like (a lot) more "mature content" if by mature we mean whatever makes a world at war feel like a world at war. And yes, a world at war means a lot of misery and pain, unlike its representation in this game.

I don't know. Not sure if I agree the game is lacking horror; that family that carried off by the falmer and were murdered and eaten was pretty disturbing. Life is pretty brutal in Skyrim...I don't see it as being soft. The beggars look pretty ragged; I guess they could have them fall over dead more often but what would that accomplish? I think the brutality in skyrim is in the eye of the beholder. You might want something more obvious but i think there is a fair amount there already. Keep in mind this is a game..and it's a product they're trying to sell; graphic mayhem and murder may not be what they're shooting for.

I have some issues with Skyrim but not being enough murder and misery was not one of them.

There seems to be two different schools of thought when it comes to the meaning of "mature content".

The first (in my opinion) is correct. They/we are the ones that recognize mature content as "content of an advlt nature". That is how the word mature is used in the phrase, to mean "advlt". Aforementioned "advlt" topics would include graphic violence, blood, gore, drug and alcohol use and, yes, six. (Que the gasps from the audience.)

The other school of thought seems to interpret "mature content" as, what? Complex story lines, moral ambiguity, "implied naughtiness", and what ever else has been mentioned thus far by our high-brow brethren here.

This is as though we are comparing Penthouse Letters to romance novels. Both deal with the same topics, only one describes it and the other implies it. The reason it's called "mature" was that some uptight bureaucrat somewhere decided it was a bit to risque for general consumption. As I stated earlier, I honestly believe that there is also a strong marketing angle to ESRB ratings. The more "mature" a title is, the better it sells. In the video game market, just as in the rest of life, six sells.

I'm not saying I need or even want gratuitous six in my video games, but the topic shouldn't be taboo. I'm not looking for hentai. This game centers on "flexible" morality as a key to survival and success. Why should a graphic decapitation cut-scene, followed by accidentally tripping on and kicking the disembodied head down a flight of stairs be "A-Okay" but hooking up with a bar wench be just over the top?

It appears our days of "flexible morality" have not yet ended...

*clap* *clap*

Thank god someone in this topic has logic

New vegas had the right amount of maturity

I don't think the OP should be looking to video games for this kind of entertainment then. You don't go to a circus looking for hard-hitting drama. I get the "world at war" idea and thought it was kind of strange that apart from some NPCs complaining about the war, it wasn't really impacting their lives. What it comes down to is time. The video game the OP is looking for doesn't, and likely will never, exist. Perhaps in a monthly fee'd MMO, but not as a single player game. There's just not enough money in the genre to pay for it. The amount of writing, programming and testing that would go in developing a world that complex could be in the millions of man-hours.

What amazes me is, as I just posted, gratuitous violence seems to be fine, but six crosses a line. I just don't get it. Either way, I think the OP made a good point about the game, even though it wasn't the point he wanted to make. It really isn't that deserving of a "mature" rating. It's cartoon violence, nothing more.

I can understand what the OP means and i agree, the game needed a more realistic and brutal world, I wanted to see peoples heads on pikes because they helped the empire/storm cloaks, I wanted to see Talos heretics burn in public and scream in horrifying agony, I wanted to see dragons burn down villages to ashes, i wanted to see beggars and prosttutes on the streets of major cities, i wanted to see more people losing their heads in public for various crimes ...etc

well u don't see him eating per say as in grabbing guts and stuff with his hands or gnawing rotten bones.

btw I think witcher was a pretty nice game in terms of dark craziness, it had the most realistic population I ever saw in a game, it was great, poor people lived horrible lives in slums, villagers are idiotic superstitious morons, kings and priests were power hungry and had the sickest morals in the land, and what they did sometimes made monsters look nice.

Where is this? It sounds funny. Does he say stuff if you listen in on him?

I agree 100%. There should be more displayed violence in a province devastated by war and dragons. Heads on pikes for Pete sake, these 'brutal' Nords seem like playing a gentlemen's game of non-lethal harassment here, not a proper war. They are probably faking the war so they could fool the "hero" into killing the dragons for them

lol

poor us heroes we always have to do all the hard work XD and in OB that dude in the end took all the credit

Heh, in a lot of Europe, the briasts would be A-Ok, and the blood and violence taboo. We're a repressed country with silly morality laws left over from the puritan days, what can ya say.

I could use more of this and there's so much potential for it too. Not just horror, but intensity, anticipation. There isn't enough of it. I really think it would make the game a lot more entertaining.

For example, I wasn't afraid to fight Alduin. Dragons should be really scary and intimidating at least enough to make me hesitate or have to take more time to prepare myself. The only thing horror like are the spiders, but that's easy, cheap horror. A lot of people hate spiders. They don't even do much in this game. If they could scale walls, feed on corpses, burrow... that would go a long way. I wasn't afraid of the cereal killer either. The story just wasn't creepy enough because the person wasn't coming after me and I didn't get the feeling that I had to save someone's life. It felt like I could take my time and just come back and do the quest later. I don't like that the game ALWAYS has to wait for us. Sometimes, we should be timed. There is so much potential for this kind of intensity.

Understand that I'm not asking Beth to turn Elderscrolls into a horror game. I'm just asking for more intensity and horror. Throughout the course of my gaming history, I've discovered that the best horror that can create a long lasting impression comes from those random, little things in a non horror game. A couple of examples would be the sewers in Shadows of the Empire and those zombie guys in Ocarina of TIme.

Great observation, I feel the same. I don't want horror for horror's sake, but it would help alot build the atmosphere for a game that wants to be lower fantasy than, say, Oblivion. When they try to make things horror using classic recipes like broken limbs, blood bath a la Spartacus, enemies that jump on your back crying like Doom, that's just horror. But when they build a feeling of panic in your soul by original, unexpected non-clichee events that blow your mind in the most disturbing ways possible (I think Shalebridge Craddle in Thief 3, or Stephen King's shining), then the horror is much more authentic and it feels like...reality. I wouldn't like Fallout 3 kind of violence in TES, but there could be more themes, stories and quests that lead you into very disturbing twists and outcomes... mostly intellectual!

The idea behind prisons is just to bore you so bad that you feel forced to sleep past it or break out.

I want more sixual themes in my games, is that so bad : /

I mean they are M rated, we have seen it before *shrugs*, people ARE naked under those cloths try imagining that next time your with people, it will freak u out a little at first though XD

In Tamriel, people are born with underwear grafted onto them, silly.

I'm an advlt i want to play a game for advlts not a 12 year old.

I hear ya. But the biggest chunk of their money comes from the underage audience, in spite of whatever ESRB rating it may 'officially' get... so they gotta keep it cool or risk getting the family values crusader league after 'em.

Well the B in Bethesda does stand for Baby, as in they are too baby to do anything mature. Comparing Fallout 3 to New Vegas, which one is the more mature game, easily the latter. Skyrim's matureness besides the violence and possibly the blood, it's a borderline high T rating game because Beth is so scared of their shadow to do anything mature at all. It's definitely something that I'm worried about with Fallout 4 in addition to the streamlining that occured with Skyrim.

This.

Elder Scrolls doesn't have to become like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB6fq9Aadwk (watch at 2:01) to be considered "Mature."

Although I will admit, I don't like all the streamlining, handholding, etc. The game is rated 17+, yet it treats the player like they're 10. Probably to avoid getting a bad score from all the idiots who do game reviews.

P.S. To those who watched the video, has anyone played that version of CS before?

Not in the Illiac Bay!

Play Fallout: New Vegas. It does in story, depth, and dialogue what Skyrim fails to do. And if you want choices that have serious consequences, well, the New Vegas DLC Lonesome Road highlights that theme with a story line that arcs over the main game and every other DLC.

As for the "teenage public" comment? Well, generalizing, imo, is far more childish than Skyrim.