This isn't another Imperial Legion vs. Stormcloak Rebellion discussion per se...

Just wanted to hear some thoughts and opinions about whose side you support in the Civil War and why.

One of the Nord NPCs says this quote when asked about the reasons for his support of the Empire, despite the outlawing of the worship of Talos.

Your comments are appreciated!

This isn't another Skyrim vs Morrowind thread, but seriously, which do you prefer and why?

Well, in contrast to my characters' views, my thoughts are divided but lean toward the Empire. I mean, the rebellion earns Skyrim nothing in the long run. It places Ulfric at the seat of High King, and reintroduces the harsh mentality of individuality in Skyrim. The "we can defend our lands on our own". Beyond that? Naught. The war has left only burnt fields and far too much blood shed in the name of the land that bound both armies, and without overwhelming force there is no chance to stand against the Thalmor.

Just think about the consequences that would bring. If the Thalmor can easily tear apart the Blades, they can certainly crush Skyrim beneath their vile heels as well, should they so choose. At present, however, the worship of Talos is outlawed but is still practiced. I'll bet many of the Legionnaires even overlook it, for what do they really gain from arresting everyone who wears a Talos symbol? Thalmor favour, perhaps, but all sensible Nords know that such is meagre.

I've given this mindset character in my most recent champion; Evander Ahquila, a Nord-Cyrodilic legionnaire forced to fight for the Empire in Skyrim after being conscripted into the Legion from prison. He worships Talos, and keeps a symbol with him in secret - but he's on the Empire's side, because he believes that the only way of ever revering Talos as a true god again would be to unite Tamriel under the colours of the Septims themselves, and not see it divided by the impulses of greedy men and blindly loyal dogs.

That's one of my favourite comments ingame. Many people see the war as Imperials vs. Nords, failing to realise that it's a civil war and that many Nords, such as Hadvar and his uncle, the battleborns, etc, do in fact support the Empire and think poorly of Ulfric or the Stormcloaks.

Personally, I roleplay an Imperial and think that the Empire is largely beneficial for Tamriel and that Ulfric is not. For the sake of brevity, I won't outline the entire argument here, because I've already done so in countless other threads from since long before Skyrim's release, and because this quintessential 'legion or stormcloak' topic pops up again and again.

Suffice to say that I believe Ulfric's motives are suspect and that his actions will have extremely negative repurcussions that will impact beyond the borders of Skyrim due to Tamriel's current state of geopolitical tension, and that people undervalue what the Empire stands for and has achieved in Tamriel, loving to jump on the romanticism of 'braveheart' freedom fighting without understanding what is at stake.

Oh, and I'll drop this copy/pase of a previous post of mine from a thread of things you hate:

The Empire is long term stability and better chance at beating the Dominion.
Only thing Ulfric has achieved - and will achieve - is a big body count and further driving the humans away from each other, paving way for Thalmor interests.
This.

I agree. If you're against the Thalmor, I believe a unified Empire stands the best chance at defeating them. After speaking with Ulfric back an Windhelm I got the impression that he was very narrow-minded, and not looking at the big picture. Does he really think that the Thalmor will leave Skyrim alone if he becomes High King and breaks away from the Empire? If High Rock, Hammerfell, Cyrodiil, and Skyrim together barely came out alive in the Great War, how does he expect Skyrim by itself to do against the Dominion?

I think Ulfric is a man who lives the life of stories he was told as a child. In his eyes, such is the way to greatness. If he can't tear apart the influence of the Thalmor in Tamriel, the gods will - or so he might believe. His father died in war and I don't think he expects a brighter fate for himself. Perhaps the romanticized rebellion he leads is merely a legacy, written in advance of his inevitable death.

Something for the bards, eh.

I side with Stormcloaks simply because of my philosophical mindset. I believe a people should govern themselves, and have any rights the majority wants in their own country. I'm very anti-big-countries-interfering-with-the-buisness-of-small-ones-just-because-they-can.

All the comments from imperials about loyalty are very ironic. Loyalty goes both ways. Just up the hill from that man's village is a Talos shrine with a massacre at its foot. The Thalmor are in Skyrim by leave of the empire. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

The empire as it exists now is not what the Nords signed up for.


How well did that work out before? They fought them to a standstill, destroyed the Dominion's attack force, then Mede gave the enemy what they came for anyway. Time for a change of leadership, and time to move the chess pieces on the board. If Cyrodiil won't ally with Skyrim as a free nation, only when the Nords are under its boot, then to oblivion with them.

Considering the Dominion's MO (separate individual provinces to weaken the Empire), I'm sure they'd consider it a victory if Skyrim managed to separate from the Empire. They overthrew the government in Valenwood and got Elsweyr to separate from the Empire as well. Starting to see a pattern here.

I'm nowhere near certain if Skyrim, Hammerfell, and the Empire as it is right now would be able to stand up to a second Dominion attack. However, I'm fairly certain that individually, each province would be easy meat for the Dominion to defeat and take control of. The massacre at the Talos shrine at the hands of Thalmor agents, I think, would pale in comparison to a full-blown occupation at the hands of the Dominion.

Well, Ulfric isn't exactly bringing democracy to Skyrim...
As far as I know, either outcome will leave Skyrim's citizens at the behest of their Jarls and High King. The people won't be governing themselves, the nobles do that for them.

But how easy would it be for the Thalmor to manipulate these independent nations into attacking each other? That is what the Thalmor are trying to do. Not just divide the lands of men, but to get them to attack each other too. Without any type of authority spanning across multiple provinces, the hatred of the Thalmor will only keep these nations united for so long.

Keep in mind that it might not be the Cyrodillic Empire nor the Aldmeri Dominion that will be the next big player. Anyone might step up once that power vacuum is made with the fall of the Empire.

There is already a Legion VS. Stormcloaks thread here: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1354465-stormcloaks-or-the-legion/

I support the Empire for a few reasons. The first reason is because I feel it is a safer bet. It guarantees two allied provinces with a combined military. It also doesn't rely on a wild card like Ulfric. The Thalmor outright state that a swift Imperial victory will set them back. Yes I know that they also want to avoid a Stormcloak victory, but it's unclear on exactly why. It could be that it would similarly set them back. It's also possible, however, that it's simply not the optimal long-term resolution. In addition, it doesn't mean that I can't slaughter the Thalmor, it merely means I need to be a bit more discreet in doing it. Finally, I feel that two wrongs don't make a right. Hurting Cyrodiil for the benefit of Skyrim is not much different from hurting Skyrim for the benefit of Cyrodiil.

Like Hammerfell? They benefitted from Cyrodiil taking the brunt, but that was because Cyrodiil itself was unprepared and proved easy pickings compared to them. And then they tried to draw off the redguard legions back to the Imperial City which would have left Hammerfell itself defenseless. That was poor leadership on the part of the empire as was the decision to broker the WGC and shove it down Skyrim's throat.


As easy as it has been for the Thalmor to manipulate the emperor?

There is no more unity among the former provinces of the empire. Even if the civil war is won in the empire's favor, there will be dissension in Skyrim so long as the Thalmor are prowling around there. Cyrodiil won't be able to raise legions like it used to. So either way, something is going to have to change. I think Titus Mede recognizes this, hence

Ultimately, it's the Nord empire. I never quite worked out whay Ulfric wants to secede rather than re-conquer...the man has no vision (and that's why he's not Dovakhin..).

He might. I don't think he wants to rule anything but Skyrim, but if Cyrodiil falls into chaos I could see him marching south to meet an invasion.

I don't see that "will to dominate a continent" is necessarily a good trait. Skyrim has enough to do to mind its own. And I don't have any such aspirations for my dragonborn. Being the dovahkiin has nothing to do with "vision." It's a gift of the gods, an accident of your birth. Don't get your britches hitched too high.

Oh like the Thalmor are going to have any trouble prowling across the former provinces. They're the best at what they do, I think they know how to not get caught. The only advantage they have in Imperial territories is the ability to operate openly. But outside of those territories, they can do whatever they damn well please without the concordat holding them back.

I didn't mean democracy. But at least it's their own nobles (I can relate to this so maybe it's just me).

Certainly I believe that the WGC was a mistake and that had the Empire decided to hold out, like Hammerfell, than Tamriel as it is today might be a very different place. But hindsight is always perfect, and while the invading Dominion army had been crushed, the Imperial army was hardly in better shape. I believe the proper term here is a 'Pyrrhic victory'.

I think as a leader, having witnessed the near total defeat of your armed forces and the destruction and massacre wreaked on your country, that you'd be willing to sacrifice a lot to try to stop it from going further.

As far as the Dominion is concerned, the name of the game is 'divide and conquer' and so far they've been doing an outstanding job.

LOL That is a huge advantage. Ask any army in history. Intelligence on your enemy's movements and defenses is priceless.

And just how easily do you think Altmer or Khajiit agents are going to have it moving around an independent Skyrim? Not likely.

They seemed to have a pretty easy time operating in Winterhold, Riften, and around Windhelm.

You don't see any Thalmor there except Ancano, and one Khajiit agent who can appear at certain times and would ordinarily be sniffed out immediately. The guards are all preoccupied with the war against the empire, as people tell you in numerous quests.

This isn't a 'which side do you prefer' type post per se, but which side do you prefer?

This works both ways though. The Stormcloaks are even more blind intel-wise because they lack the intelligence networks that both the Dominion and Empire have. Being able to prevent small details getting out in your home province isn't much use when you're on the opposite side of the continent from your enemy, lack any spy networks of your own, and the enemy still has their own spy networks in most of the provinces, meaning you can't enter or talk to Cyrodiil or High Rock without the Thalmor finding out.

Edit: In fact, lacking a spy network will make it even harder for the Stormcloaks to combat the Thalmor's spy network.