Who says the Empire is required to unite Tamriel? And what is the Empire anyway? Cyrodiil, Half of Skyrim, High Rock and nominally Morrowind?

Well, I would argue that the WGC was a betrayal principally of Hammerfell, but one that can be justified in the light of the presumed suffering of Cyrodiil under Thalmor occupation - the sacking of all cities except for Bruma, the battles, etc, must have taken a heavy toll on civilian life and property, and the Emperor ended that the quckiest way he could. For better or for worse? We shall see.

That said, you have your idea of what's best for Tamriel, and I have mine. I assume we can both agree that the common enemy is the Aldmeri Dominion? (And I beg you not to consider the Empire in League with the Thalmor, for everything points toward a second Great War to come, whether that be with Skyrim as part of the Empire or not).

The Empire isn't required to unite Tamriel, but given that it has presided over multiple provinces for millenia and that no realistic alternative for Tamrielic-unity besides the Aldmeri man-hating zealots currently exists, I support the Empire against the Thalmor. Oh, and I definitely agree with you in that the Empire has seen better days, but, as I said before, surely the Empire pre-Civil War, encompassing Cyrodiil, Skyrim and High Rock, with resources shared between the three provinces, wouldn't be weaker than those three provinces and Hammerfell individually facing the Thalmor threat alone and divided instead of united under the Imperial banner?

Who says Ulfric is required to unite Tamriel? And what is Stormcloak territory anyway? Half of Skyrim?

And don't you worry about how many provinces the Empire has.

We'll get the rest back, at swordpoint if necessary.

Off-topic, but that sounds like an excellent idea for a third-way mod!

Raminus, if you don't like the Thalmor, why does your sig mention the Eight Divines?

What Thalmor threat?

He doesn't want the Thalmor knocking on his door step. Shhhhhh...

Oh, you know, the Threat that is clearly there when it has been 30 years since the Great War. It is sometimes made more apparent by the fact that Alinor and the Dominion's other provinces were untouched by the fighting.

And don't go saying that the Altmer don't breed fast enough. That isn't a problem since they relied on other races to use as soldiers.

The Thalmor threat that the Legion was never able to destroy or throw out of Cyrodiil. The writer of The Great War, a veteran of the conflict, is convinced that they still retain their power despite being the one who informed us all that the Redguards were able to kick them out of Hammerfell.

Heh, you picked up on that
Basically, it's to affirm that I respect the WGC. Though I may not like its terms, I agree that a tenuous peace under the WGC diktat is preferable to a continuation of the Great War that might have seen more suffering or maybe even a collapse of the Empire. Cyrodiil suffered heavily, and I think Titus Mede II did well in pressing for peace when he did (even if he fails as a diplomat).

Also, just so you know, I consider the WGC temporary; I can't honestly see the banning of Talos worship extend for more than a few decades, or a century and a bit at most. (Note that this is speculation on my part). "The Great War" and snippets of ingame dialogue also hint at the breaking out of hostilities again soon between Empire and Dominion, so I assume that after that showdown the WGC would end (given an Imperial victory, hopefully).

"The Great War" and ingame dialogue suggest that the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion are merely biding their time until a repeat of the Great War, which is why the Thalmor are so intent on weakening the Empire from the inside (having succeeded with Hammerfell and now trying to do so with Skyrim using Ulfric's rebellion). The Empire are the Thalmor's rivals, not their puppets.

... I'm being civil here

Thalmor did not rely on their other provinces for their military. What? The Khajiit, who don't give a [censored] about politics? Or the docile Bosmer who the Thalmor have been so busy purging the past +70 years?

I wonder how many Altmer can be trained to be adept with magic within 25 years compared to the amount of humans that can be trained to use a sword and shield. Not to mention the population differences.

The Thalmor do use other races in their ranks. The Khajiit are known to work for the Thalmor as assassins in Skyrim, so whose to say that they wouldn't want to fight for them on the battlefield. They do, after all, see the Thalmor as saints in their eyes after they restored the two moons. And enough Bosmer supported the Thalmor during the coup, so that means some are fanatic enough to fight for them.

And we have no information on how long it takes for the Thalmor to train their soldiers to use magic. Even then, they still have an immense advantage due to superior equipment, training, and intelligence.

Your point? Yes, he was the one that Bethesda chose to inform us of what actually happened and what will be written down in Elder Scrolls history. How does that assert the validity of his concerns and beliefs for the future?

The Aldmeri Dominion had little of an Invasion force left at the end of the Great War. 25 years have passed, that is not enough time for them to fully recover. It probably isn't for the Empire, either, but the Empire would still be restored at a rate much quicker than the Dominion.

A lot of you seem to forget about what IS happening, and seem to focus more on the "was or has been". There is a dragonborn in Skyrim, now many of you "roleplay" your character but you also seem to forget that a Dragonborn is something sorta special in the world, especially in Skyrim during such a civil crisis.

Now I know how I could talk about my Dragonborn joining the rebellion because he thinks he is the second coming of Talos and that its is his duty to free Skyrim of its shackles and nonbelievers so he joins the rebellion, him the Dragonborn with the power to destroy dragons and probably armies, to drive off the empire and build up a army to face the Thalmor. But that means nothing because you don't play you Dragonborn in such a way and I get it. However I think that current events need to be taken into account as much as past events.


You guys should read "Dragon Lance The Minotaur Wars" It is a great example of how a empire can end up being screwed over by making a pact with old enemies, while a rebellion builds up and ends up saving the day. So many people see tom focus on the politics of this game, instead of the fact that you are a hero here to save Skryim, and you also have to remember that you might not be the only Dragonborn either so, so despite anything to do with your Dragonborn, doesn't meany Bethesda won't write it as such with another Dragonborn entering the picture.

We will never know till the next game how the lore turns out.

The author can't be considered a reliable force on the Dominion's capabilities to recover after a war or the exact numbers that the Thalmor wielded.

Keep in mind Alinor is untouched and that the Dominion boasts the best navy in Tamriel. Both of these combined mean that the Dominion is capable of keeping it's provinces well supplied and connected. It also means that the Dominion can rearm much quicker since all of their main cities were not razed.

You aren't saving Skyrim, your supposed to save the world. Hence why Alduin is known as the 'World Eater'.

And the lore states your the last Dragonborn, so no take-backsies.

And the Gerybeards state to you, that while you are the last Dragonborn, they don't know if you are the only Dragonborn. See what Bethesda did there? Loop hole my friend Expect big action from a Dragonborn in the lore, more then killing dragons.

Hammerfell was already out of the empire by the time of the signing of the WGC. The WGC affects Skyrim disproportionately because Talos worship is stronger there than elsewhere.

Obviously yes. I don't consider the empire in league with the Thalmor by choice, but they are bent over and taking it. Even if you argue they had to do so to save their own people, they could have let Skyrim secede the way they let Hammerfell leave when it became clear the terms Cyrodiil had negotiated for them weren't going to fly. Instead they chose to bleed their own people. Given what's already happened, I don't think Skyrim can trust imperial leadership to represent its interests anymore.

They weren't able to do so before, so what makes you think they'll do so again with even fewer resources and lower morale? Whatever golden days the empire had, they're long gone.

Well, only half wants to secede. The other half wants to stay, and they have their reasons.

Unfortunately, cooperation between both sides will be limited at best as both want the same thing.

And the Nords can trust Ulfric? Disregarding Stormcloak losses, deaths from the Dragons which Ulfric's rebellion brought about (as it fulfilled the Akaviri prophecy), and the fact that the Thalmor orchestrated the civil war, Ulfric's rebellion has killed a lot more Nords than the Thalmor Justiciars in Skyrim have.

Same reason the Stormcloak supporters think that a glorified militia can defeat the Thalmor. Except the Legion is larger, more organized, and has far superior and further reaching intelligence networks.

Really? Would you like to present some proof that the Thalmor use Bosmer and Khajiit as soldiers? I've never seen any Khajiit or Bosmer Thalmor soldiers in the game. One Khajiit means that Khajiit are known to be Thalmor assassins? I've never heard any word or mention of Khajiit involvement in the Great War. Have you? Just because a nation supports another nation, doesn't mean it has to fight for it.

The Void Nights occured around 100 years ago, rarely is gratitude eternal. And the allied Bosmeri factions were helping in the coup because they wished for a change in the Valenwood government, that doesn't mean they want to fight in a war against the empire.

That's redicilous. By the same token the Empire is responsible as it enabled Numidium to walk (twice) and sent the Nerevarine to Morrowind.

A prophecy describes future events, it doesn't cause them to happen. Unless it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is another thing entirely
If there had been no civil war, dragons would still have returned. The prophecy would simply have been inaccurate. The hero is necessary, the prophecy isn't.

Remember that America didn't control Iraq until they broke several UN resolutions, attacked Iraq, killed a dictator without consent from anybody but themselves, and shoved their beliefs down a country's throat. The Empire conquered ALL of Tamriel by force a long time ago and they were fine with it after everything was settled.

The people WANTED an Empire rule until they banned Talos. Even when they banned Talos, nobody enforced it. According to Alvor, the RIverwood Blacksmith, everybody had a personal shrine to Talos and it was an incredibly loose piece of legislation. Until Ulfric said something, everything wasn't as bad. Yeah, it was bad but not as bad before Ulfric came in and forced the Empire to crack down under threat of annihilation by the Thalmor.

It's a simple trade really. Skyrim produces fierce and barbaric warriors while the Cyrodiil people give them food and commerce.

A good navy doesn't mean anything if you don't have any troops to back it up. Unless their ships are like Silt Striders they're not going to make a difference (although if it comes down to invading Summerset, they probably would). Their navy didn't play a major role in the first Great War, I doubt it will in the second, provided the second Great War is the war to kick the Thalmor off of Tamriel's mainland.

And the Dominion has no need to supply its provinces because they are not helping them in the war. Elsweyr only supports the Aldmeri Dominion, it does not fight for them. And Valenwood is on the brink of a civil war.

It would be a cool DLC, if Dovahkiin could command several Dragons and together wreck havok on Alinor.

There is nothing I've heard of indicating Valenwood is on the brink of a civil war. The mentions that some purges were carried out some time ago does not mean that they've got a weak grip on the province or that there is a viable opposition to the Thalmor going on over there. They also carried out purges in Alinor/Summerset, yet that is where they are strongest.