Hmm, have you played any MMO before? i don't mean that in a bad way, just seeing if you've notice american pay far less mmo subs.

You do know that we in Europe pay way more than you in the USA, right?

If our sub is 18 euro's then yours would probably be $12.

I don't have a clue of the Euro - Dollar rate currently (my fault entirely for not keeping up) so I can't really reply to this so I'm not even sure why I'm posting...

I should probably know that though so thanks.

Mm..no. 18 euros is $25 dollars
Current inflation is $1.34 dollars to €1 euro

Edit: had them switched at first xP

As I mentioned in my post, lumping all "free to play" models into one box and calling it F2P is a mistake. There are many different varieties. I haven't played EQ2 (not since really early in the game, anyway) or LOTRO, but SWTOR was one of the ones I mentioned as "freemium", which is probably the absolute WORST model for F2P, and one I'd NEVER play. There are others that are different though, which I would have have played.

Just because some F2P games are horrible doesn't mean they all are.

Actual the worst one of all is F2P/P2W. About Freemium, it depends on your attitude towards P2P. If your fine with P2P, freemium isn't that bad at all. If you don't like P2P, freemium isn't much better. But except you've got so much money, you don't know how to spend it, P2W is far and away the worst.

B2P with an optional sub-fee sounds good. A way for everyone to enjoy the game. Giving the players who pay a monthly fee certain perks like a head-start on newly released content, certain customization options that otherwise could be accessed through a cash shop. As long as paying real money does not give you any technical advantage over those who do not pay, it's fine with me.
Would still be OK with pure P2P, though.

That's called "Freemium".

Well, I can't say I've played a P2W game, but the reason I hate freemium so much is that it calls itself "free" then forces you to pay to get all of the content. Paying for extra storage space? Not crazy about it, but ok. Paying for cosmetic items? Absolutely Though I do admit I absolutely HATE the way most of them use the gambling model- you pay a small amount for a "chance" to get a really cool skin. I realize that most people are svckers and will fall for this stupidity, but I want the cool skin too, and am willing to pay a flat amount for it, but they don't offer it that way. That's my biggest gripe with GW2's cash shop, in fact.

Anyway, if the game makes you pay in order to gain access to all of the content in the game, then it's not free, in my opinion.

What about the game that gives you an alternative to playing an you can unlock content that way? I like that model the best out of any fremium there is. Sure you arent going to get gobs of points fast but you dont have to pay anything when the system allows you to earn points for unlocks. But everyone has their preference and while I like a freemium model that allows you to earn content, my wife isnt fond of the system.

I think nowadays people need to understand that F2P or B2P is the normal way to go in todays market, with exception to WoW, and the only reason WoW is not going F2P is cause they would lose money while having such high subs numbers.

people advocating for P2P, just want this because they want to feel entitled to be opinionated about the game future cause they pay a sub. Like because you pay a monthly fee the Dev's would give a flying fig about the direction you want the game to go.

Lol i'm not saying that, i'm saying that if we in Europe pay 18 euros then the your sub will be around $12.What i'm actually saying is that we in Europe get ripped off when it comes to paying subs for MMO's lol, i know the currency rate.

Do you have to pay some extra tax?

I think some european countries have VAT (when they see a price it includes any applicable taxes whereas the US tax is never included in any price we are given)

Umm...what????

That's not at all why people prefer P2P, like have you even bothered to read through the thread before making such a stupid and mis-informed post or did you just decide that you know everything and not bother and choose to make us look like arrogant pricks when in reality that has nothing to do whatsoever with why some people prefer P2P.

That's actually an incredibly rude post overall because it's clear you made that without reading so much as a single page in this thread or having any background knowledge whatsoever.

Also B2P and F2P are not "the normal way to go" that's simply one way. Ugh I'm sorry but I really detest people like yourself, if you're going to bash us for liking P2P then great, but at least bother to be INFORMED first -.-

I wouldn't mind it being p2p and i feel it might be good for some games like Eve but i honestly can't see this game staying alive for long with a sub. Every AAA MMO that has launched with a sub has gone to some kind of f2p model after Rift and that game is struggling hard right now, even tough it actually does what people expect for a p2p model, produce more and better quality content. Unlike WoW which had 3 big patches with old reskinned content during 2 years of their last expansion... Why the hell are people paying for that when they could go to rift which is the same game with prettier graphics and more content, their expansion was free for subscribers and it like tripled the game world and added an additional faction to play. And now THAT game is having a hard time while the other one is swimming in money???

Now somebody might consider that off topic but it's not, this game will lose a lot of people after the first free month no matter how good it actually is the real question is how many will stay after that. The safest way for this game IMO would be GW 1 model, you pay for the game and then it has smaller expansions every 6 months or so that you have to pay for. its much better than having it to be designed for subscriptions and then turning in to a horrible f2p model after a few months.

How many P2P games out there? I only know of: WoW, Rift, and Eve. Oh yeah FFXIV when its re-released.
Here are the B2P/F2P, Freemium games I can name: TSW, TOR, DDO, LotRO, GW2, EQ, EQ2, AoC, Tera, Aion, Lineage to name a few

I think the mistake they made was to be a bit too much like WoW, so WoW players already have years of gear grind on a character why would they leave for almost the same thing to start over again. I understand though why you are asking it, because it kind of doesnt make sense lol. I thought rift was fun and had a great time playing it, but I had to quite when I got a new job and a new girlfriend. I never could really get back into though, but I really never tried either. The combat was silly with all the macro's and the PvP wasnt that attractive. I did love how they made the classes/roles and the dungeons were fun.

Ah I apologize, for some reason I had it in my head he was strictly talking about B2P games (which is stupid because I quoted the damn thing so F2P was staring me straight in the face) so while there are more P2P games than B2P, I'm completely wrong in saying that there's more P2P games than both combined.

My mistake. Edited.

The games i've marked in yellow still have a P2P sub option so their are still plenty of people willing to pay a sub.

ArcheAge has just released with a sub as well.

Darkfall UW will be a sub if they ever get the game out of beta

^this.

also don't you agree... if its F2P or 'just' B2P there will be much more hackers and bots.. because, who wants to pay monthly with the risk of being detected and banned?
(after a bit of thinking it doesnt really matter tho?! when someone cheats, he cheats... I have troubles with my own thought... brain, what are you doing?)

But i don't really feel like this will be different enough from wow either. You might not agree with my opinion but let me explain: but this game still has raids, dungeons, objective based pvp and other stuff we know and are used to from WoW. The only kind of MMO that could have a rising or even steady subscriber base would have to be completely different. A sandbox with community made events, like eve but this game isn't anything like that and from what it seems there wont be any game in the near future like that so for now subscriptions might not be a viable option for MMOs and it's all because of WoW. It's the main reason for all this MMO hopping, overhyping every new mmo to it's death and a genre that just can't move anywhere. A lot of people here will be on the newest MMOs forums on next year and saying how much ESO svcked and how good the new game will be. But i really hope that it wouldn't happen because i want to play an mmo in the Elder Scrolls universe and not worry about some ripoff f2p businessmodel or the lack of players to play with.

Thats not getting ripped off. You are paying your proper amount, and we are paying ours.

UO was quite fair in pricing tho

okay coming from Liechtenstein ... here everything is expensive :/ this 15$/month is literaly 2 packs of smokes...

there might be other countries where 15$ is actually much more worth ;/

but still, if its F2P or B2P or P2P has, in the end, nothing to do with the fairness of the price. in EU you'll priobably pay 30% more for the B2P aswell.

Missed one DDO also has a sub option hence the 'Freemium' classification



Just because its F2P/B2P doesnt mean it has more hackers/botters/etc. Case in point: WoW is filled with botters, spammers and such. LotRO (Freemium game) has almost none. I hope you are aware that even with subs those that want to hack and such will do so with stolen CC. Thats why most F2P/Freemium games have restrictions in place.