Yes shasow that is another thing i diden't really explain as good as i wished, sorry its late, but a few MMO's have clients you download then pay sub per month.

Either way i will just wait until i see what happends, hopefully beth is making a new fallout/elder scrolls either way in-case this doesn't go to plan. alot of games tend to overhype on trailers over the last 2 years.

That's not what I meant, I meant that an MMO isn't worth playing unless you actually have the time to spend playing it.

What's wrong with playing a few hours every week? It's worth playing if it's fun for you... no matter how much time you spend on it.

I personally prefer the pay to play model as it provides money for the company to continue to provide additional support for the game. More money means more content means better experience and longevity of interesting things to do. F2P generally results in cash shops and over powered content. Micro transactions result in you eventually paying more then you would have from a Pay to Play model.

Don't be naive, there is no such thing as Free 2 Play. It's an illusion, you wind up paying more that way.

Buy 2 play generally also equals cash shops and/or microtransactions which also lead to a lot of cons that most of us are familiar with. It also generally leads to less content being released and bodes no good will towards fixing bugs and what have you.

Pay to play is really the only means of which an MMoRPG can offer the full extent of features that TES deserves. At least with Pay to Play you know exactly what the game is going to cost you. Hate to be the one to say it but it's true, B2P and F2P are and always will be scams. Nothing is free and MMoRPGs require maintenance costs that just can't be met with the other game models. If it is met, it's met half-donkey and we wind up with laggy servers and ignorant devs.

Sorry I suppose I'm too old of an MMO player, I come from the days of old fashioned hardcoe games that take hours upon hours to do the smallest of things. You're right though that for a casual game as long as you enjoy it the amount of time you put into it isn't as important because the amount of work required for the payoff is much much smaller.

If you look at gw2 than you see that a b2p system can also work.

That's actually a really bad example depending on who's viewpoint is looking at it. There are many posts and threads out there complaining about the quality of the game's servers and what they are capable of. Lets also not forget that eventually GW2 will not be able to afford to release content, this was blatent with the first Guild Wars. Regardless a B2P model will not have the funds readily available that a P2P model will have thus a P2P model can release content more consistently and make better quality of it at that when they do. Not to mention that a B2P model ALWAYS results in cash shops or microtransactions which are terrible (in my opinion) and game breaking.

A big deal with an MMoRPG is that you should have to earn what you have rather then simply buy what you want because you make more money then everyone else and can afford to. If I couldn't afford ten to fifteen bucks a month to play a game then I think I should be out looking for a job rather then spending my time playing video games. For the simple fact of cash shops and micro transactions being required for a b2p or f2p model to work they should not have any place in an MMoRPG. In an MMo I can see it being alright, but no, not in an MMoRPG.

A B2P game's build is also entirely focused on the release and the few months afterwards and making sure that in those first few months they make enough back + profit. Whereas a P2P game is more focused on the money over time aspect.

To sum it up:

P2P = Long term build/focus on the game

B2P = Short term focus/box sales/early micro-transaction profits when the playerbase is still high

Of course both types work for what they go for (as long as the game itself is good!) and there's really nothing wrong with either it just depends upon what type of player you are.

How can cash shops be gamebreaking? Guild Wars 2 or Aion are great examples of cash shops. Only cosmetic stuff....

You don't be naive. There are such things as free-to-play. I've listed this a few times already, Aion: Ascension, Planetside 2, Lineage 2, Tera Online, 100% free-to-play, no pay-to-win, no need to spend a single penny.

@Shasow - Believe what you want. I've said what I believe to be facts. Not going to bounce back and forth with you. I'm fairly confident that the game is going to be pay to play from just looking at the gameplay quality and graphical features. Also, from the description of the server system, I highly doubt it would be affordable without pay to play. In the end, really, I don't think any input from any of us on this thread is going to make a difference on what they decide to do. This gets down to the cost that is going to be required for them to run the systems and they will be obligated to choose a payment style that will produce profit. Most likely they will go with a pay to play model because I imagine it produces the most profit.

If I had to bet money on it, I'd bet that its going to cost about 15 bucks a month to play. That's where I'd put my money partly due to that amount being an industry standard for a game being launched at this caliber by a series this well known.

I agree with everything except for Planetside 2, since it takes AGES to get enough credits just to unlock a single gun yet you can unlock all of them and all sorts of upgrades if you pay, so PS2 actually is sort of P2W, not COMPLETELY but still kind of.

how come none has thought of a subscription fee that makes you pay 1 month of gameplay?

let me explain better ( since i'm really bad at explaining things <,
Wouldn't be better to make an MMO with a subscription fee that renews itself when you reach 1 month of gameplay? ( this for those let's say "standard" 15 dollars per month)
This way those that will only play this game will still pay the 15$ for the month (you'll actually play evenmore since i don't think you're goin' to play 24/7), and those like me that play multiple games (like Mobas or w/e), or dont have much time during the day ( like someone working 8 hours a day and have only time during the night), will still be able to enjoy the game without the feel of getting milked of his money from the game company.


This is also my fist post in this forum so... yay! \m/

A full month of playing time? That's a long time. I wouldn't be opposed to this, but it's just... too long. Much too long.

And welcome to the forums. http://images.uesp.net/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg.

yeah one month of playing time would be way too much. didn't look at hours per day and total hours per month etc. that would be actually crazy even for a superhardcoebbqMMO player

Pay to Pay please, these guys are right F2P does not truly exist, if you've played multiple big name MMORPG's (WoW, SWTOR, GW2, etc.) you know that these things aren't quite what they seem, I had a guild mate in SWTOR who is a subscriber and spent an additional 80 dollars buying stuff from coin shop buying packs that had a really rare chance to drop an item.

Aion: Ascension, Lineage 2, Tera Online, 100% free-to-play, no pay-to-win, no need to spend a single penny. Free-to-play truly does exist.

Other than $20/month. I agree with everything you just said 100%. 10-15 would be optimal. P2P is ABSOLUTELY the way to go with MMOs. Cash shops are the bane of my MMO gaming existence.

Why is that? I don't see anything wrong with a cosmetic cash shop, as long as it isn't pay-to-win....

They just feel dirty to me. It's like paying for six almost. Weird anology I know, but thats just my point of view I guess. To me it just seems to take the heart and soul out of what an MMO is really about, again, my point of view. I should have the things I have and wear the things I wear in an MMO because I earned them in some way; exploration, raiding, PvP, solo questng, etc. Just like if I'm sleeping with a girl I should have gotten to that point on my own accord, and not had to pay for it. I accept the fact that you want to pay for someting to wear, and thats fine, I don't even care if there is some aesthetic only shop in the game. But I'm not going to use it.

I feel the same way... with pay-to-play.

I made a huge post about the same comparison on mmorpg.com but it was alot more graphic and it got deleted after 2 pages in the thread and I got banned for 3 days. My whole point without going into detail was Cash shops are like a hoker and P2P is like a relationship or marriage.

@Eric. I was going to be a little more vulgar, but then remembered where I was. x_ x

@Shasow. Explain to me how you feel the same about P2P. In P2P (most that I've played at least, some could be different I guess) you earn what you wear. Its more akin to a badge of honor of sorts when you see some guy strolling down *insert main hang out mmo city here* with *insert badass raid item/title/etc*. Microtransactions/Cash Shops are exactly the opposite. any little kiddy with mommy and daddy's wallet can pay whatever he needs to get ahead in the game with out earning anything. Granted, however, that the same kiddies are usually the ones in P2P games that have all the cool [censored] because they're using mommy and daddy's wallet to pay the sub fee and have all day outside of middle school to hardcoe grind on everything, if their attention span can last that long...

Anyways, please explain =P

Edit: Typos, I svck.

Think about that for a second.

If nobody spent a single penny, there is zero income for the game. Zero income means the game goes offline. Permanently.

Free to Play is a gimmick designed to make you spend your money. I assure you, these games would not exist anymore if they weren't making money off the players who "seriously" play them. Sure, you can play off and on, here and there a few hours a week and not pay, but a game doesn't go F2P for that type of player.
I plan to "seriously" play ESO, so for me a quick, quiet and easy monthly debit is much easier than micro transaction after micro transaction after micro transaction.

I am starting to think that's the difference. People who want F2P can't possibly be serious about putting time and effort into this game. How could they possibly fool themselves into thinking it'll be truly free?

If they want to have an optional F2P business model alongside P2P, like a lot of MMOs have then fine. Don't bother me with friggin' MTs for ANYTHING though. I want no part of it.

I'm pretty sure that sums it up perfectly.