[Rob]

Still trying to wrap my mind how 4J managed to get Gamebryo working perfectly when they ported Oblivion to the Ps3...but Beth can't do the same.

I've read on the official playstation forums that there are issues with save file size as well. I recall someone saying "Good luck changing cells when your save file is bigger than 10 MB". My file never reached that size so I can't say anything about this. But yeah, 4J even fixed some physics bugs like the floating paintbrushes and spinning brush jars.
I'd assume that they made a good port because they had plenty of time to work on it. Oblivion for the PS3 was released a year later or so?

[carrie roche]

According to some, this is a Sony issue, in part for having half the RAM of the 360, and infinitely less than practically any actual PC, and in part for being so hard to develop for. And you can hear that from a lot of developers.

Everyone knows that driving a car needs wheels round. Is it the fault of the tire manufacturers if a car manufacturer to create a fun car with square axles? And thus, their super car requires square wheels.

I do not think.

[Becky Palmer]

I can't believe I want to do this, but I think I'm going to offer my Skyrim game for trade-in when Assassin's Creed III comes out. I have no interest in playing Skyrim anymore, the DLC would change that, but I just don't want to go through the same stuff over and over again. I haven't played the Thieves Guild quest line, but that's such a minor thing that it's not enough to compel to play the game again.

If this DLC thing gets straightened out, and it's available on a GOTY edition of Syrim, I will buy that version.

theives guild is IMO the best guild questline not because of an awesome story but the progression is alot slower kind of like oblivion's guilds

[Neliel Kudoh]

Still trying to wrap my mind how 4J managed to get Gamebryo working perfectly when they ported Oblivion to the Ps3...but Beth can't do the same.

Maybe because it's a new engine since Oblivion now. Completely overhauled since Fallout:3 enough to call it a new engine? I imagine they are looking or using all resources available to get it working up to and including third party assistance. Though I have no way to state that for sure. Past practice has shown they are willing to do so however since they did so with Oblivion.

[Carlitos Avila]

I'm in no way making light of the situation but nobody has paid for this DLC who didn't get it. Paying for Skyrim does not entitle anyone to get added content and some don't buy any dlc's for their game.

Sometimes all anyone can do is try. Failure is not trying at all.

Not meaning to be rude, but later on in my post I said I'm not even concerned about the DLC at this point. I just want the base game, that I paid full price for, to be fixed. You have to admit, Bethesda blatantly lied to the PS3 community before the game was released about it's performance on the console. It has been well documented exactly what they said. I, like many, feel scammed into buying a game under false pretenses. I spent full price on it, the same amount as PC and Xbox 360 users. You better believe that I feel entitled to a working game like they have.

[Alan Whiston]

It is my understanding from my reading that Oblivion's implementation of Radiant AI was scaled back specifically due to performance issues. I think they tried to return to a more complete implementation for Skyrim. If as they say the memory isn't the issue then perhaps it is the Radiant AI.

I think that Radiant AI is just Bethesda's brandname for goal driven autonomy. I think this means that every NPC is persistent, with the exception of random encounters, so that their goals and actions can be evaluated and executed and affect the game world even when the player is nowhere near them.

This alone would take considerable processing power as well as memory. Adding new content with new NPCs would most definitely increase the demand.

There are many game engines out there that allow you to write your code once and simply recompile for the 3 different platforms. Sony's own Phyre Engine is one.

If Bethesda took this route with their own engine, I could see them making it so generic as to not properly use the cell processor's capabilities. This would make the engine horribly inefficient on the PS3. They may be naive enough to not have realized. If Oblivion was ported to PS3 by a third party that has more experience with the cell, this would explain the difference in quality.

I've been lurking these forums for a while and I just felt compelled to get into the discussion because of my disgust with the handling of this by a company that should know better. Their arrogance is despicable.

That's my two cents anyhow.

[Dean Ashcroft]

Maybe because it's a new engine since Oblivion now. Completely overhauled since Fallout:3 enough to call it a new engine? I imagine they are looking or using all resources available to get it working up to and including third party assistance. Though I have no way to state that for sure. Past practice has shown they are willing to do so however since they did so with Oblivion.

Yeah true Summer but no dlc should take this long to get working, no matter new engine or not. but thats just my opinion.
& on a sidenote Bethesda really needs to get it working soon because many big name games are coming out in October, the main date being the 30th. so for many ( me included ) the 30th is there cut off date for waiting for this dlc.

[SEXY QUEEN]

If making a transition, I'd recommend going one step further and getting a PC. You'll never look back.

I gamed for over 15 years on PC starting with a DX2 / 66 and building my own gaming rigs as required, now I prefer to game on the PS3 and haven't looked back, everyone is different.

No offense taken at all. I'm just saying we all paid for our game and it was Skyrim. We paid for it in full and we got the full game. DLCs are additional content that we can buy if we like. It's not needed for our game to play as it was meant to play. I might be angry not having the DLC's available to me but since I haven't even paid for it as of yet, I have lost nothing. I don't work for Bethesda and I too have been disappointed by it's lack of release. I'm just a member who volunteers to moderate the forum and sometimes I share my opinion. Sometimes it appears I am defending Bethesda, other times I appear to be angry with them. In this post I was merely saying it's hard to feel angry about something I've not paid for.

It's all well and good to state the obvious Summer, yes we bought Skyrim and that is what we got. Maybe there is no "Entitlement" to DLC but if it was stated in the printed material that came with the game then people are not being unreasonable in thier expectations imo.

That aside, we are also having to play the game with a patch (V1.07) that undoubtedly contains code that was probably designed to play properly with DLC. Yes the trophy support was stripped when 1.06 became 1.07 but I would bet that code is still present and probably partly to blame for many problems users have reported since updating.

I can only speak for myself but I suspect others would be less miffed if the vanilla game was repatched with a V1,08 after it's announced that DLC will not be available for PS3 as making the game playable as possible would be a small compensation.

Maybe because it's a new engine since Oblivion now. Completely overhauled since Fallout:3 enough to call it a new engine?

Sorry but a truly "New" engine would not present similar bugs and shortcomings that the "Old" engine was plagued with, for instance the savegame bloat and even bugs like the old GOAT bug or finding you enter a city and the buildings are missing - failed cell load from Fallout 3 iirc. No it hasn't been modified enough to be termed a new engine, not by a long chalk.

I do appreciate you discussing subjects like this with the forum members and in no way am I trying to be rude.

[Charity Hughes]

It is my understanding from my reading that Oblivion's implementation of Radiant AI was scaled back specifically due to performance issues. I think they tried to return to a more complete implementation for Skyrim. If as they say the memory isn't the issue then perhaps it is the Radiant AI.

I think that Radiant AI is just Bethesda's brandname for goal driven autonomy. I think this means that every NPC is persistent, with the exception of random encounters, so that their goals and actions can be evaluated and executed and affect the game world even when the player is nowhere near them.

This alone would take considerable processing power as well as memory. Adding new content with new NPCs would most definitely increase the demand.

There are many game engines out there that allow you to write your code once and simply recompile for the 3 different platforms. Sony's own Phyre Engine is one.

If Bethesda took this route with their own engine, I could see them making it so generic as to not properly use the cell processor's capabilities. This would make the engine horribly inefficient on the PS3. They may be naive enough to not have realized. If Oblivion was ported to PS3 by a third party that has more experience with the cell, this would explain the difference in quality.

I've been lurking these forums for a while and I just felt compelled to get into the discussion because of my disgust with the handling of this by a company that should know better. Their arrogance is despicable.

That's my two cents anyhow.

Glad to know i'm not the only one who thinks the Radiant system is a likely culprit in why DLC is being so problematic in getting released to the PS3 platform.

[Portions]

I've read on the official playstation forums that there are issues with save file size as well. I recall someone saying "Good luck changing cells when your save file is bigger than 10 MB". My file never reached that size so I can't say anything about this. But yeah, 4J even fixed some physics bugs like the floating paintbrushes and spinning brush jars.
I'd assume that they made a good port because they had plenty of time to work on it. Oblivion for the PS3 was released a year later or so?

It was, but remember the system was released a year later than the Xbox (roughly), so they had to wait until the tools were available. It's not that it took them longer, it's just what was available wasn't there yet.

Maybe because it's a new engine since Oblivion now. Completely overhauled since Fallout:3 enough to call it a new engine? I imagine they are looking or using all resources available to get it working up to and including third party assistance. Though I have no way to state that for sure. Past practice has shown they are willing to do so however since they did so with Oblivion.

It's just a revamped engine, it's not new. I mean, c'mon as you're revamping something shouldn't also be working on the platforms it's going to be released on to ensure it's proper function? That's just common sense. It has similar problems that Bethesda had before with the old engine and that's why 4j was brought in so it could be done right. Now that they revamped it, ran into the same or similar problems, but tried doing it themselves, is it really a surprise of what has happened with this? Not in hindsight to the information we have that the game was never released to critics and that the claims they made it was on par with the Xbox version were false.


I don't hate this game, I really like it. I just hate running into the constant problems with it that other devs have figured out long ago how to avoid by coding properly for the platform. Bethesda said they put extra effort and promised it was on par with the other versions, but it simply isn't. I'm at level 45 now with my Redguard and hitting that 10mb savefile. Loading times are now becoming extremely long in every scenerio and I'm hitting FPS drops a lot more often. This is going to prevent me from enjoying the end-game stuff at top level, once again.

[neil slattery]

Glad to know i'm not the only one who thinks the Radiant system is a likely culprit in why DLC is being so problematic in getting released to the PS3 platform.

I'm sure that if it were the Radiant AI, that would explain their reluctance to tell us what the problem actually is. That is a feature they hyped so much... For the last few games!

[Tiffany Castillo]

I know it's been said before, but maybe if they deleted some of the memory bloat the game would run better. What I mean is do we really need all of those pointless linen wraps, cups, forks, spoons, tankards, wooden plates, embalming tools, ruined books, and other worthless crap in the game? All of those pieces, there are thousands, take up memory space. If they move it takes up even more. That seems to be the biggest issue facing Bethesda titles on the PS3. I know if they deleted almost all of them from the game I wouldn't miss them.
So far, every time I've played the game, I've seen something new that I don't care about. Adding to all of the above, I've found broken sword pieces, soul gem pieces, and a few other things that make me wonder what their point is. Again, they all take up memory and I couldn't care less if they were there or not.

[michael flanigan]

I had to make an account to say this so here goes. I loved Fallout and new vegas. and even with the bloodgrass glitch i loved oblivion. Yes i hated the fact that us ps3 players had the glitchiest(and most missing dlc) for some. I have constantly heard people say buy an xbox or pc and buy skyrim instead of keeping my ps3 version. My track record is 12 xbox's in 3 months 8 of them didnt even last one day(although they were refurbished from gamestop) the last 4 died in a week from red ring of death. So i am not and never will be an xbox supporter. My pc is a 500$ one from walmart. It cant even run oblivion without looking like picasso did the graphics. Yes my track history with xbox has been almost as bad as mine with Bethesda games(or bugthesda as ive noticed lately). I love ps3 and enjoy all the games ive seen. Kingdoms of amalur(why did they have to go away?) darksiders, borderlands, just to name a few. Skyrim is an awesome game and still with the glitches and broken game i still think beth did a decent job when it does work. However what bothers me the most about this dlc fiasco is this....

There has been no official yes/no we are working etc. for a bit and bethesda is still cranking out dlc for pc and new game for all systems. So why is it that i still want the dlc to be released or just bethesda to say forget ps3 dlc we cant fix it? Why cant i just say i don't want to deal with bethesda?

Answer The same reason i can't do the same to bioware.....

When their games actually run decnt for a bit they take me away from being disabled and home alone and let me be someone awesome.
So bethesda please keep trying to fix it or im going to go crazy waiting.

[Jeffrey Lawson]

A new statement from Pete Hines - http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/10/05/bethesda-skyrim-ps3-dlc-problems-on-us-to-solve

"It's on us to solve"

Well, duh? Jesus if it's taken them this long to say that I really think we have no hope. they clearly have no idea what they are doing, I guess all the fans they have lost are payment for lazy developing and taking Microsoft's money. A real shame to see a once great developer fall to the depths of bribe taking and shady deals.

[Kevin S]

Wow still no word?.. I play it on the PC, but my group of friends and I have decided not to buy any of the DLC until they figured this stuff out; our little protest.

[Matt Fletcher]

Maybe because it's a new engine since Oblivion now. Completely overhauled since Fallout:3 enough to call it a new engine? I imagine they are looking or using all resources available to get it working up to and including third party assistance. Though I have no way to state that for sure. Past practice has shown they are willing to do so however since they did so with Oblivion.

Most game developers only a develop one game engine per console generation Summer, its rare that a game company will make more then one. They normally have some have stated revamp or improve the engine based on their needs. Bethesda though most likely has a new game engine ready or is working on one but it will be for next gen systems. Square enix already has their next gen game engine ready, you can see some of its work in Versus 13 has it will be handling the lighting outside of that though the PS3 can't handle the engine's full potential.

I had to make an account to say this so here goes. I loved Fallout and new vegas. and even with the bloodgrass glitch i loved oblivion. Yes i hated the fact that us ps3 players had the glitchiest(and most missing dlc) for some. I have constantly heard people say buy an xbox or pc and buy skyrim instead of keeping my ps3 version. My track record is 12 xbox's in 3 months 8 of them didnt even last one day(although they were refurbished from gamestop) the last 4 died in a week from red ring of death. So i am not and never will be an xbox supporter. My pc is a 500$ one from walmart. It cant even run oblivion without looking like picasso did the graphics. Yes my track history with xbox has been almost as bad as mine with Bethesda games(or bugthesda as ive noticed lately). I love ps3 and enjoy all the games ive seen. Kingdoms of amalur(why did they have to go away?) darksiders, borderlands, just to name a few. Skyrim is an awesome game and still with the glitches and broken game i still think beth did a decent job when it does work. However what bothers me the most about this dlc fiasco is this.... There has been no official yes/no we are working etc. for a bit and bethesda is still cranking out dlc for pc and new game for all systems. So why is it that i still want the dlc to be released or just bethesda to say forget ps3 dlc we cant fix it? Why cant i just say i don't want to deal with bethesda? Answer The same reason i can't do the same to bioware..... When their games actually run decnt for a bit they take me away from being disabled and home alone and let me be someone awesome. So bethesda please keep trying to fix it or im going to go crazy waiting.

Your biggest mistake buying a used System big no no, especially with this current generation of consoles they are I am sorry to say trash. Their durability is garbage compared to older system's, I own a 360 and my cousin owns a PS3 so I know. More often then not when I see claims like yours it brings mind what kind of care the machines are getting. I have a 360 slim its nearly 2 years old and I have no problems with it, I evens stated in another post that I got a sega genesis that is nearly 20yrs old that functions perfectly. So I just can't help but wonder at times how people are treating their game consoles..

A new statement from Pete Hines - http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/10/05/bethesda-skyrim-ps3-dlc-problems-on-us-to-solve "It's on us to solve" Well, duh? Jesus if it's taken them this long to say that I really think we have no hope. they clearly have no idea what they are doing, I guess all the fans they have lost are payment for lazy developing and taking Microsoft's money. A real shame to see a once great developer fall to the depths of bribe taking and shady deals.

I wish people would stop taking just sections of a quote post the whole quote or nothing at all.

[benjamin corsini]

You know, it's about time that Beth admited it and I hope they can get Dawnguard, heck all DLC's out on the PS3.

[Becky Palmer]

Wow still no word?.. I play it on the PC, but my group of friends and I have decided not to buy any of the DLC until they figured this stuff out; our little protest.

So wait, you guys can buy the DLC but refuse to until the DLC is available for the PS3 as well?

If that's what you mean well, that's kinda interesting to me actually xD

[anna ley]

EDIT: Apparently I can't read. Disregard.

[Nick Jase Mason]

So wait, you guys can buy the DLC but refuse to until the DLC is available for the PS3 as well?

If that's what you mean well, that's kinda interesting to me actually xD

Pretty much; my group of friends and myself personally tend to see the world of gaming as a kindred community where things like platform fanboyism is petty and insignificant to gaming in general so we support all gamers no matter their preferences. In that light when we see other gamers having to suffer like this we tend to boycott a company until they show equal treatment of all of their costumer base. In truth there is no telling who is next in matters like this.

As a side note it goes a bit father than the fact that the PS3 has not gotten the DLC yet, it also mostly deals with the fact that the PS3 needs an exclusive patch to fix the current issues it suffers from and until the PS3 version is in adequate working order, myself personally will not invest in the DLC. If the issues are abandoned... well I do not think I will invest in games from this company again.

[El Khatiri]

Wow still no word?.. I play it on the PC, but my group of friends and I have decided not to buy any of the DLC until they figured this stuff out; our little protest.

Hopefully if people start doing this, Bethesda will start to realize they need to devote more to figuring this out.

[Albert Wesker]

Why? They aren't giving Bethesda money because they don't feel Bethesda is treating their customers right. How can you possibly find that insulting?

He said interesting, not "insulting"

[Amie Mccubbing]

Money hungry punks. They knew the dlc wouldn't be out on time, they knew skyrim on ps3 would have problems, and they still released it. I would say they stole my money, but I should have known better. All I know is that this is the last time they G me out of my money.

[Euan]

Money hungry punks. They knew the dlc wouldn't be out on time, they knew skyrim on ps3 would have problems, and they still released it. I would say they stole my money, but I should have known better. All I know is that this is the last time they G me out of my money.

Only some people had problems with Skyrim on release - the same as some people on Xbox and PC did. I, for one, had almost no problems. And DLC is a separate product to the base game - they, legally speaking, don't have to release any DLC.
I'm as disappointed as the next PS3 player, but please don't go around throwing false accusations, exaggerations and general whining.

[Eire Charlotta]

Only some people had problems with Skyrim on release - the same as some people on Xbox and PC did. I, for one, had almost no problems. And DLC is a separate product to the base game - they, legally speaking, don't have to release any DLC.
I'm as disappointed as the next PS3 player, but please don't go around throwing false accusations, exaggerations and general whining.

I don't know about 'legally speaking', but DLC was much mentioned in Beth's pre-release interviews/publicity... "bigger than Fallout, but not so numerous" if you'll recall, and was actually promised on the flaming box for crying out loud. I can't speak to what the law, in it's majesty, would have to say on the subject, but 'common-sensically speaking' people were led to expect added value on the product they bought... taking offense to having been misled is not "whining".