[Angela Woods]

Feel free to discuss the delay for the PS3 format, complain or express your concerns - provided you abide by the forum rules. Keep it constructive and civil.

This is not the forum or the thread for you to flame. Flaming or otherwise inappropriate comments will result in a warning with suspension from the forum.

When this thread gets close to the 200 post mark, feel free to report it. A moderator will start a new thread.

Some other relevant information:

It has been http://www.bethblog.com/2012/08/02/dawnguard-ps3-update/ that the PS3 version will be delayed a bit as they are still working to ensure acceptable performance on the platform.

Gstaff, on 30 August 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

Earlier in the month, we provided an update on Dawnguard's status for PS3.

It's been a few weeks, and we wanted to make sure everyone knows where we're at with Dawnguard. Skyrim is a massive and dynamic game that requires a lot of resources, and things get much more complex when you're talking about sizable content like Dawnguard. We have tried a number of things, but none of them solve the issue enough to make Dawnguard good for everyone. The PS3 is a powerful system, and we're http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1413248-ps3-release-for-dawnguard-thread-23/# to deliver the content you guys want. Dawnguard is obviously not the only DLC we’ve been working on either, so the issues of adding content get even more complicated. This is not a problem we’re positive we can solve, but we are working together with Sony to try to bring you this content.

We wish we had a more definitive answer right now. We understand the frustration when the same content is not available on all platforms. When we have an update, we will certainly let you know. We deeply appreciate all the time and support you have given us, and we’ll keep doing our best to return that.

Additional information from Pete Hines in response to Dawnguard:

"Yes, it’s just doesn’t perform well in all scenarios. Some folks would be fine, some would not.”

One of Bethesda’s top PR execs, Pete Hines, (who holds the position of VP of PR and marketing), tweeted to a question that concerned the release date, saying, “No, we will not release it if we can’t get the performance to an ‘acceptable’ standard. Our stance on this has not changed.”

According to Gstaff http://www.bethblog.com/2012/10/04/hearthfire-available-on-steam/comment-page-1/#comment-278242:

Friday, October 5, 2012 at 10:57 am:

We haven’t given up. We’re still working to see what’s possible.

Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 10:15 pm:

Our team is still working to make PS3 content available on PS and doing everything possible to make it a possibility.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1415410-ps3-release-for-dawnguard-thread-26/

[Talitha Kukk]

Please release this DLC, hire more staff if you have to Bethesda in the long run you'll lose less PS3 users that way.

[~Amy~]

Please release this DLC, hire more staff if you have to Bethesda in the long run you'll lose less PS3 users that way.

Im sorry but its just not that simple, if it was we would have it already and another thread

[Britta Gronkowski]

The next dlc was the one everyone was supposed to get at the same time. They better delay that dlc until ps3 owners can play dawnguard and hearthfire. IMO it's the best way to show their dedication to ps3 owners. I said it before and I will say it again if they released another dlc before the ps3 has the other TWO. My copy of skyrim becomes a Frisbee for my dog(lost the old one in central park the other day, dogs pretty upset about it). Beth could have said before it was released that the ps3 was not getting,dlc. They knew they [censored] up and still released it. Plain and simple, they knew they would have their money.

[darnell waddington]

Im sorry but its just not that simple, if it was we would have it already and another thread

honestly it could be Bethesda really svcks at porting 4j did a great job porting oblivion and almost no other gaming company has no problem porting to ps3 if they are competent.

[CSar L]

Is there a pool going for when Bethesda officially cancels any/all Skyrim PS3 DLC?

[Dean Brown]

Is there a pool going for when Bethesda officially cancels any/all Skyrim PS3 DLC?

I'm treating as its canceled already. Yeah if I happen to log on to the PSN store and see its on sell, I'll buy it right then and there. But in my mind, the project is dead and buried, Super Street Fighter has returned to living in my PS3s disc tray.

[pinar]

@Arctorius

Basically, if you look here, you can see roughly how a game's cost is broken down. Based on those statistics, Bethesda softworks(the publishing group) would get 30%, or about $15 million in gross profit. Bethesda game studios gets 15%, which is about 7.5 million. Finally, the marketing team(which is one of the two "bethesda" companies) gets another 7.5 million. Therefore, at most the two bethesda groups would see $30 million gross profit. Then there's all the malarkey involving Zenimax, since they own them both.

That is a nifty chart. Few things though:

* Did you mean to use $50 million as a total gross for Dishonored? Cause i'm sure that that game will gross more than that.
* Bethesda Game Studios would actually be Arkane Studios in your example.
* Marketing costs would have to be some form of split between Bethesda and Arkane.

And looking at your example with the corrected info, does more to support my idea than refute it imo. Bethesda gets a nice little chunk of change that can then be earmarked to be applied to w/e account they use to hold their sales from DLC. That chunk of cash, while nice, is only going to be equal to some of what they lost of potential DLC sales on the PS3. And knowing bean-counters, whether they planned to or not, i can see this happening.

[Nauty]

Is there a pool going for when Bethesda officially cancels any/all Skyrim PS3 DLC?

Closest thing was a guess as to how many iterations of this thread there would be. I didn't take part in it, but have to say i'm amazed that the # count is getting closer to some guesses i thought would never happen.

[Shirley BEltran]

honestly it could be Bethesda really svcks at porting 4j did a great job porting oblivion and almost no other gaming company has no problem porting to ps3 if they are competent.

The Oblivion port wasn't actually that incredible. It had numerous issues, some common to all platforms (Animation Bomb), and some unique to the PS3 (Vampire Cure Glitch).

And you've also got to remember how Oblivion is technically incredibly simple compared to Skyrim. You make the engine more advanced by bolting things on to it, and it requires more resources and creates more issues when those requirements aren't being met. That's why the issues are worse in Fallout than in Oblivion, and worse in Skyrim than in Fallout. The more advanced it is, the more data is has to store in a save game and the faster the save rises in size. Adding DLC just quickens that process, and when a console is struggling as it is with larger save files as it is you really don't want that.

That's the way the engine works. Is it the most efficient thing in the world? Far from it. But saving data in a save game is really the most logical approach to take with games like Skyrim. To change that would require a complete game re-write essentially, and even then there's no guarantee they'll even find an alternative or that it will be any better.

As sad as it sounds, unless a miracle breakthrough happens, the chance of the DLC being released and working correctly are pretty slim.

[Alina loves Alexandra]

The Oblivion port wasn't actually that incredible. It had numerous issues, some common to all platforms (Animation Bomb), and some unique to the PS3 (Vampire Cure Glitch).

And you've also got to remember how Oblivion is technically incredibly simple compared to Skyrim. You make the engine more advanced by bolting things on to it, and it requires more resources and creates more issues when those requirements aren't being met. That's why the issues are worse in Fallout than in Oblivion, and worse in Skyrim than in Fallout. The more advanced it is, the more data is has to store in a save game and the faster the save rises in size. Adding DLC just quickens that process, and when a console is struggling as it is with larger save files as it is you really don't want that.

That's the way the engine works. Is it the most efficient thing in the world? Far from it. But saving data in a save game is really the most logical approach to take with games like Skyrim. To change that would require a complete game re-write essentially, and even then there's no guarantee they'll even find an alternative or that it will be any better.

As sad as it sounds, unless a miracle breakthrough happens, the chance of the DLC being released and working correctly are pretty slim.

Its been said, but if Bethesda had taken the time to actually make a new engine capable of working with all three of its main platforms, we wouldn't be here. Instead Bethesda has kept on cramming more and more onto a what is now an at least 10 year old version an engine that i doubt they have been updating.

[Krista Belle Davis]

Closest thing was a guess as to how many iterations of this thread there would be. I didn't take part in it, but have to say i'm amazed that the # count is getting closer to some guesses i thought would never happen.

that's why I guessed 52 lol but the way these threads are slowing down thats going to be a long time lol

[Josee Leach]

Its been said, but if Bethesda had taken the time to actually make a new engine capable of working with all three of its main platforms, we wouldn't be here. Instead Bethesda has kept on cramming more and more onto a what is now an at least 10 year old version an engine that i doubt they have been updating.

You can build a new engine all you like, but you've still got to think of a way to combat save bloating. Which is much easier said than done.

[Amy Melissa]

Were Bethesda to actually move to an all-new engine would anyone believe them that they did so?

[Scared humanity]

@Arctorius



That is a nifty chart. Few things though:

* Did you mean to use $50 million as a total gross for Dishonored? Cause i'm sure that that game will gross more than that.
* Bethesda Game Studios would actually be Arkane Studios in your example.
* Marketing costs would have to be some form of split between Bethesda and Arkane.

And looking at your example with the corrected info, does more to support my idea than refute it imo. Bethesda gets a nice little chunk of change that can then be earmarked to be applied to w/e account they use to hold their sales from DLC. That chunk of cash, while nice, is only going to be equal to some of what they lost of potential DLC sales on the PS3. And knowing bean-counters, whether they planned to or not, i can see this happening.

That's $50 million comes from half the PS3 userbase buying DG and hearthfire. I wasn't referring to Dishonored's sales. The game's only just released, so we'll have to wait until the game's been out for a little while.

In the case of dishonored, Beth probably gets the publisher's cut and maybe half the marketing or more. Still, there's the fact that if they release all the DLC they will eventually do for Skyrim on the PS3, They get more than what they get for Dishonored. It makes more sense to just fix and release the DLC rather than publish a different game to fill in the gaps

Its been said, but if Bethesda had taken the time to actually make a new engine capable of working with all three of its main platforms, we wouldn't be here. Instead Bethesda has kept on cramming more and more onto a what is now an at least 10 year old version an engine that i doubt they have been updating.

Very few engines are truly new. It's pretty common for game engines to be revamped for each title
Besides, if they did move to a totally new engine, you've got the obnoxious learning curve of a brand new engine

[Rozlyn Robinson]

Were Bethesda to actually move to an all-new engine would anyone believe them that they did so?

Before Skyrim? Yes, we did, which is why we are so angry right now.
If they claim a new engine for the next game? Hell no. I will not believe what Bethesda says about their PS3 titles ever again.


BTW, I know the MODS mean well, but may I ask them to please stop posting the "updates" at the beginning of these threads? They have remained unchanged so long I think we all know what they say by now and, speaking for myself, they are starting to become insulting.

[Vincent Joe]

Very few engines are truly new. It's pretty common for game engines to be revamped for each title
Besides, if they did move to a totally new engine, you've got the obnoxious learning curve of a brand new engine

Not gonna dispute that very few engines are truly new. That is fact through and through.

But Bethesda claimed the Creation engine was brand new and went so far as to say that problems experienced on past PS3 versions would be eliminated because of it. In reality the Creation engine appears to really be just an over-taxed version of Gamebryo which they STILL can't seem to code properly for-on any platform. And we all know the end result of the 'brand new engine' don't we?

I think i should also say here its not the engine(Gamebryo) that is at fault here imo. Plenty of others developers use Gamebryo and have wonderful results without all they problems Bethesda does. I think that engine is up to at least ver 3.0 now and i believe it is regularly updated and refined by its makers. I think its Bethesda's inability to use the engine, whether it be the base Gamebryo or their 'brand new' Creation engine, that is the issue.

[Jeff Tingler]

Nick Breckon specifically referred to it as an "all-new" engine as in all of it is new. Not part of it, not a new renderer, not mostly new but all-new. That is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt a boldfaced and blatant lie.

[Dalley hussain]

AC3 is almost here so I could care less about this DLC that will never be released for Ps3. They had their chance but waited too long and now many games are coming this month and next.

[Georgia Fullalove]

AC3 is almost here so I could care less about this DLC that will never be released for Ps3. They had their chance but waited too long and now many games are coming this month and next.

This^^
I can't wait, I'm currently replaying the whole series.

[emma sweeney]

You can build a new engine all you like, but you've still got to think of a way to combat save bloating. Which is much easier said than done.

I've been suggesting it for a while now - let players have the OPTION to turn those once-cleared-now-becomes-a-sanctuary dungeons off/on and toss them back into the re-queue pile. You'll save a TON of memory that way!

And, seriously, how many console players are REALLY going to be using EVERY SINGLE dungeon sanctuary? I'd guess that maybe less than 2 of them are being used, if at all... &--#62;_&--#60;

[jason worrell]

I've been suggesting it for a while now - let players have the OPTION to turn those once-cleared-now-becomes-a-sanctuary dungeons off/on and toss them back into the re-queue pile. You'll save a TON of memory that way!

And, seriously, how many console players are REALLY going to be using EVERY SINGLE dungeon sanctuary? I'd guess that maybe less than 2 of them are being used, if at all... &--#62;_&--#60;

Good ideas.

Just for laughs i put loaded up my first save game. At over 300 game days elapsed, Helgen Keep has not respawned-still. There are stormcloak bodies still there that i killed late in the day 11/11/11 lol. There is zero reason for my save game to be tracking that still. I'm thinking they should not have removed the 'dispose of body' option from the series, would've helped alot imo.

[Matt Gammond]

Hmmm. I seem to be missing all of the developer posts being made on these threads. Probably because they haven't said a word, at least not here. I have noticed any "comments" or "updates" made by developers have been on the major media forums like twitter and the bethesda facebook page. I wonder why that is?

Maybe its because Bethesda has little interest in getting the DLC content to the PS3. Other developers such as CCP, Gearbox, and many others have a developer presence on their game forums. CCP is currently working on DUST 514 and they have a constant presence on the forums because they are currently in beta and want to solve the problems users have immediately, they also take suggestions for additives to the completed game and changes to the content that is already there. Gearbox does some of the same, making sure users of their products are assisted and problems are eliminated so EVERYONE can play without issues.

Back to the point on developers not commenting on theses threads EVER(i have never seen them but if there are some please point them out because i would like to see how little information they contain on the current state of the DLC content). Why don't they say anything here? Is it because they are ashamed and don't want to show their faces? I doubt shame is a perceivable emotion for the Bethesda team at this point, and if they are ashamed they should be trying hard to make fans happy and do their best to fix the game. Yet we are left in the dark and nobody has anything to say other than; we are sorry but there is no excuse for this kind of anger towards us.

Do they think that the audience here is not big enough? We may consist of only a few site members; but we are still fans are we not? We sill wished at one point or another to see this content soon so we could enjoy it. Our numbers should make no difference at all; we should be given the attention of the developers we want and deserve. If any other company decided to ignore fans pleas for help that company would expect a back lash and dips in future sales(because we all know that is what Bethesda is going to care the most about once this is all said and done). I think they say nothing here yet give comments on larger venues because they simply do not care about any of us. They care about their public image and that's it.

I don't want to believe it but it's true, they are only interested in damage control at this point. Bethesda could not care any less about the PS3 DLC fate. They only want to look like they care about this issue to the majority. It is obvious due to the lack of commenting here where fans, who are actually willing to post their thoughts on the situation, reside. If I saw developers take an interest in what we have to say, then maybe I could be swayed to think they give a damn about the quality of their game rather than what the majority thinks and how much money could be lost if they looked any worse than they already do.

[Alisia Lisha]

The only developer comments I have seen on these forums is from the occasional Bethesda Employee, commenting on aspects about CK in the CK threads, there might be more but I haven't seen any.

[Chris Duncan]

Bethesda's treatment of PS3 users has actively turned longtime fans into people who now openly detest this company.