It is a play tag with children game, and i'm the champion of all the holds

Just because it isn't a fully reliable source doesn't mean that everything is wrong there.

Hey everyone who thinks Skyrim isn't an RPG, why don't you go download some mods and make it as much of an RPG as you want it to. If your not on PC then I guess you can keep complaining.

It cab still be categorized as an rpg, but if Bethesda dumb it even more for the next game, then TES will not be an rpg anymore.

This.

Then again I tend to think even the computer/console players definition needs to be broken down into at least 3 sub-categories these days.

My personal definition does'nt make another persons invalid hence my point is there really is no actual definition for what constitutes an RPG outside personal opinion.

*Looks at box* Oh [censored]! I could've sworn that such a warning was there and that was the whole reason I bought it.


Back to topic, the definition of RPG is quite broad and by that definition, 99% of all games are RPG's but what I think really defines a title to the RPG genre is the leveling up process. I have only played the first two halo games but as far as I know, games like halo don't have the character gaining xp per quest completion / kill and leveling up.

Character customization? - check
Level progression of the character? - check
Character influence in the story? - could be better, player could have tougher choices, or the quests could have bigger chain of events, but check.

The OP seems to think that Skyrim falls in the same genre as Grand Theft Auto, Legend of Zelda, and the Uncharted series.

There is character development and definition in Skyrim: Try getting into the College of Winterhold without identifying as some sort of mage (Investing points into magicka, leveling up the magic schools, and investing perks into the Mage skills). Your character is incapable of casting any of the requested spells. Meanwhile, a character that HAS invested a few points into magicka or perked/skilled up a school to reduce the cost of their spellcasting abilities, can get in the traditional way easily. Yes, the Dhovakiin can just shout his/her way in, but that's a "backdoor" because access to the college is required during the Main Quest.

And even the Voice is a form of magic, so you can't be completely non-arcane if you want to join the College of Winterhold.

Likewise, in order to join any of the other guilds, you have to prove yourself capable of performing that guild's functionality (Clear out a dungeon to go anywhere with the Companions - quite a martial feat. Demonstrate sneaking and pickpocketting skill to join the Theives guild. and be willing to kill to join the Dark Brotherhood).

Furthermore, while Action-adventure games can accomodate different playstyles, if Skyrim was an Action-Adventure game instead of RPG, it would be possible to pick up any two characters at the same point in the game and have them play exactly the same.

Trying to say "It's no more an RPG than Deus Ex (Human Revolution)" is also a rather poor argument, considering that Deus Ex is also an RPG, albeit a Cyberpunk RPG instead of a Fantasy RPG. In fact, Deus Ex is more or less the Cyberpunk version of Baldur's Gate.

well, in skyrim, and in previous es games, the rpg elements only serve to give you incentive to continue playing the game, they are not particularly well developed and ultimately doesn't facilitate any diverse play styles. Just as well that es games have virtually no replay potential. Take fallout 1 and 2 and compare it to 3, and note the differences.

Agreed.

Skyrim is an action adventure game with heavy RPG elements. Choice is not one of those elements, however.

This game has no choice. You either get a Big mac or you get a Big Mac.

You could debate the "hey, this isn't an RPG because it's not like this game!" or, "hey, this is not an RPG because it doesn't meet my standards of what an RPG is!", or you could just, you know, play the game you paid for. Why do people get so huffy over this? Is arguing over what genre a game is in REALLY what the gaming community has come to? The argument of this or that not being an RPG is absurd. Now, whether RPG was it's own, specific genre with rules and regulations about what made you an RPG years ago is irrelevant. It doesn't matter anymore because the industry has changed. It's evolved, like the fandom should, in all areas of entertainment and not just gaming.

To you, the fan, yes, RPG means what you expect it to mean. But to an overall, broad base of the gaming world, RPG basically just means "play the role of a character in a world = RPG". That's it. So, by the industry standard and the marketing standard, RPG can mean something as hardcoe as D&D or as simple as Halo. It's really that simple. You may not like it, but it's what the industry does. It evolves. You should, too. Or not. Your call.

The Elder Scrolls has ALWAYS been an Action Roleplaying Game series. I admit, Skyrim has 'streamlined' to be more action and less RPG, but it is still an RPG.

Yeah, TES isn't really known for its choice. The vast majority of the time its either do a quest or dont. Sure there are some quests that give you choice but they have always been few and far between.

And we should give a [censored] about the OP's definition of "RPG"...why?

I found this, ill post it here, for what its worth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

Because he is a member of the RPG police, and he is only trying to protect you, Joe and Jane Citizen, from the evils of RPGs that don't meet the RPG polices strict definition.

Remember, when you refer to a game as an RPG that hasn't got the RPG Police's seal of approval than Communism wins.


+1


Plus the assorted industry professionals such as journalists and reviewers who play with or around games for a living and who haven't felt the need to say "but it isn't an RPG" - but usually will question when a game claims to be something it isn't (games that claim to be Sandbox, or RPG FPS, or atmospheric horror). So either Bethesda has bribed them keep up an act or...

Or this meets the RPG criteria of most people who play games for a living and a large portion of the community that plays games as a hobby as well as meeting the dictionary definition as well as the definitions most PnP RPGs have in the front of their books were they ask "What is an RPG?"

I think it is a classic self defense mechanism. Certain "strong fans" are unhappy with the finished product. They can't stop being strong fans of something, but having something from a series they are a strong fan of that they don't like creates an uncomfortable conflict. The simple solution is to try and redefine the thing they aren't feeling to exclude it from the thing they are a strong fan of.


Indeed. In those games I am playing a role that is given to me. I am leading a predetermined character through a mostly linear story without the potential to really influence to choose to do much beyond what the plot needs me to do to move it forward (maybe I get to choose how to make my way through a level - you can sneak past or snipe him - yeah, big RPG moment there). Heck playing as Master Chief I only really choose what weapons to use.

In an RPG I am creating a character myself, role playing them as I see the character acting and interacting etc. People who say "well then you are RPing in COD just like you are with your mage or warrior or thieve or arcane assasin or spell sword or paladin or arcane thieve etc of 1 of ten races of either gender etc in Skyrim" are just creating straw men.

This reminds me of a lot of D&D sessions I've been in.

DM: *gives long-winded, in-character request from an NPC to send the PCs to a distant, lore-rich dungeon and recover a very important artifact that has three pages worth of fluff in his notes*
Players: "Okay, so we go to that whatever-the-dungeons name is."
DM: *Cries a bit inside, but keeps a straight face." "Alrighty, *Describes journey*
Players: *Argue pizza Bill*
DM: Alright, *Describes entrance to dungeon in dramatic detail*
Players: "Okay, we do whatever needs to be done to open the door"
DM: "Alright after *dramatic recitation of door-opening sequence* You see inside *Detailed description of hallway*
Players: "Okay, so... what were those dimensions again?"
DM: "Ten-foot wide hallway, extending more than the thirry... er, sixty feet you can see in front of yourself."
*Adventure continues, DM trying to give detailed descriptions, but relents to just spouting dimensions and creature names and grid locations to keep things moving, since players don't care about fluff*
Eventually...
DM: *still clinging to hope of players caring* "At last, from the corpse of the boss, you pull forth the *intricate description of the artifact, and reminder of all lore the players have "gathered" about it on their journeys"
Players: "Okay, we got the doohicky, now lets move onto this next quest*
DM: "Alright, lets just wrap this session up for the night"
*Players leave*
*DM cries himself to sleep that night.*

D&D is an RPG, right? The original. So let's see...you chose a race and class, as well as gear and whatnot, and you went out into an open world to complete quests and have random encounters.

So...I'm sorry, what was this about again? TES games are D&D in pixels. D&D is the original RPG. End of discussion.

definitions aside, es games have always played like an adventure game, so I believe the streamlining in skyrim is actually quite well suited.

mmK....but it's fun ....that's all that matters to me.

I really dont like the people who say "its because you dont roleplay". I should not have to imagin im roleplaying. Rpg's are supposed to show me the outcome of my decisions, so if im playing a paladin, then the game should provide me with content that would fit a paladin. I should not have to "pretend" that im a paladin and play through the same as I did with a mage.

I remember when playing rpg's there was actually a diffrence of between a sorcerer and a warrior. Not only skills, but the game made me feel like a whole other person. Skyrims doesnt do it right, there is only a little diffrent gaming experince in the diffren playstyle you choose.

Skyim is close, but not close enough for me to be a "real" rpg.

You're confusing the issue here. Allegiance/choice isn't what makes an RPG.

In Halo, you are always the seven-foot-tall supersoldier skilled with all vehicles and weapons ever seen and never seen before. While each player may have different preferences, they can switch controllers at any time and not have to find a way to compensate for the other' person's playstyle. If you play the Master-Chief as a gung-ho guy who goes in dual-wielding a Magnum and Plasma Pistol, you can, at any point, toss it to your friend, who will toss away the pistols and pick up a sniper rife, and being able to play a methodical, accurate sniper Master Chief as though the Master Chief had always been the methodical sniper.

In Skyrim, however, if you play a level 35 master thief that dual-wields daggers and gets massive critical hits, and then toss it to your friend who likes to play as a level 35 Destruction Mage, he cannot just swap out the daggers, equip the spells of his choice (It's highly likely he won't even have his favored spells as an option on this theify character!), and cast spells as though he spent the last 34 levels working on magic and Destruction spells, finding himself with more stamina than he knows what to do with, not enough magicka to get even one cast off from his favorite spell, and the spells he does manage to get off won't have the same effect as they would on his level 35 Mage (Who can dual-cast incinerating fireballs). That is what makes Skyrim a cRPG.

Yeah, I've encountered those types of games as well.

That is the problem with the generalizing - you can usually find a lot of people on your own side just as bad as the side you are trying to portray in a bad light.

at the end, the different "playstyles" skyrim has is pretty pointless, the outcome is the same no matter what you do, the only thing that changes is the way that you kill people (sound familiar?), which could be the reason why some people don't consider it an rpg.